The Lost O-Seyo Afshai?

Daniel_Kyrillos

`<rictoc Anecti

I was looking for O-Oi-ni Afshai but this came up as a similar video, and it claims to be the lost hymn O-seyo afshai (Ouciou afsai, http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/1497) of the Holy Nativity but I doubt the Coptic community would not have noticed a lost hymn just lying around on YouTube. Here's the link:

Is this just someone putting a tune to the words of the lost hymn? Or is this legitimate? 

minatasgeel

Well i know there is a recording for someone from Tanta for Osio, but its modern. Abouna Abraam El-Abnoubi, the monk saying the saying mentioned, is a great cantor who has access to a lot of hymns and sources from Upper Egypt. He is one of the people that are with accepting the many ways of saying the same hymn, without dismissing them except for obvious reasons. So, even though he recorded this hymn, he probably has an older source. 

I myself tend to agree with him. The more we learn about alhan, the more I realize that many many hymns and rites were very localized to specific cities and villages in Egypt. This is while most deacons now set the standard to be C Mikhail, whatever he recorded or didn't, or whatever was recorded by his disciples. I always criticize HCOC statement of "based on the Great Cantor Mikhail teaching" but atleast they have a specific criteria that is made public and they follow it in their recordings.

By setting the standard to be just C Mikhail, I think we are ignoring a huge part of our hymnology heritage that C Mikhail (or all those that served with him) didn't have access to. 

ophadece

Ekhrestos anesty
I have been listening to some parts and it sounds like a compilation of some of the notations (hazzat) of jenetleyon!
Oujai khan ebshois

Daniel_Kyrillos

@ophadece it would make sense that Genethlion and O-seyo have similar hazzat... I haven't learned genethlion yet, so I can't weigh in on it, but I'll take your word for it :)

@minatasgeel yeah, I saw online once that there are so many tunes for so many things because the church didn't have 1 set standard (take the Difnar for example- there are like 3 different ways to say the introductions, and it's because a church somewhere was different than another) and it caused confusion.

The more hymns we discover and recover, like we did with the added verses for the Kiahk gospel responses, we are going to have to say "We can use this source, even though C. Mikhail didn't record it."

Thank you both so much, God Bless. 

ophadece

Ekhrestos anesty
Dear @Daniel_Kyrillos
Yes I agree with you it does make some sense to me. And I also learned that tunes of connecting ceremonials do overlap sometimes, so I don't mind the hymn, don't get me wrong, but the big question that you asked and I am echoing again is: how authentic is that?
Oujai khan ebshois

minatasgeel

So here is a problem i have with using the word 'authentic'....what is your standard to call something authentic or unauthentic? 

ophadece

Ekhrestos anesty
Dear @minatasgeel
Good question. I guess what I am getting at is if this hymn is a resurrection to an old teaching, is it newly constructed, how widely used was it, and who used to sing it before and how regularly?
Oujai khan ebshois

Daniel_Kyrillos

@ophadece @minatasgeel what i was asking was if this was the same O-seyo afshai as the one that was "lost" ie, the cantors never recorded it or passed ot down, or if this is someone taking the words and putting it to a tune. If the hymn is truly lost, then the Synod would have to agree on a tune for it, or keep it lost forever. If it's just a matter of "C Mikhail didnt record it, therefore it's lost," and this is the/a widely used tune that C Mikhail just didn't record or use or whatever, then I'd say this is authentic.

minatasgeel

@ophadece...lol. those questions still refer to a specific standard that you must judge by.

@Daniel_Kyrillos...to answer your question, yes, this is the same Osio that we have in the library, being labeled 'Lost'

In General, don't expect the Synod to do much right now concerning alhan. We all hope for that, but i think there are many different bishops that have different opinion on how to approach anything with alhan, let alone pronunciation of Coptic. So lets just keep praying and serving God for the time-being. 

Some info about Osio thoo, Albair does reiterates that it's lost and acknowledges that there is a cantor named Saleeb who recorded...but he didn't comment on the recording, to be authentic or not. He also said that in Tarteeb Elbe3a, it is said that Piginmisi is said, and if there is enough time, Osio and its paralex is said or the paralex Ginethlion. So it sounds like, Pi-ginmisi was a long hymn, with its paralex being ginithlion. And then you have Osio, a separate hymn, shorter than piginmisi, with it's paralex being av-ini naf.

Daniel_Kyrillos

Slight question @minatasgeel: Is there a grammatical reason that the library says aumasf? or is that a typo? The recording to me sounds like saying aumacf 

Pray for me.

minatasgeel

That was a typo and i fixed it :-)

Daniel_Kyrillos

@minatasgeel thanks!