Oriental Orthodox and evolution

Justice

Hi everyone,

I was wondering what is the Coptic Church on evolution do they believe it's compatible with the Bible?

In Christ,
Justice

minasoliman

There's no official view. You will have clergy who will disagree with evolution and you will have clergy who don't see a problem with evolution so long as you don't make it sound like God didn't create.

The debate is no different among the Eastern Orthodox on this. At times the debate can get very heated. If you search on this forum, you'll find we discussed it ad nauseum.

Joshuaa

Evolution as the concept of Darwin came out of his protestant background. Which means it was man centred as opposed to the orthodox view, I believe, is God cented. When we talk about the creation of Adam, we are talking about God's nature creating a human nature. In this we have God putting His divine nature into human nature;     Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life: and man became a living being.    The expression the dust of the ground is in humbleness of the world, and the expression breathed into his nostrils the breath of life is that God gave Adam a part of God's divinity or a part of God's divine nature. God and Adam shared in oneness of God's divinity.

  Darwin whom was protestant gave a literal interpetation, so lost the divine meaning of the creation. That is why also protestants have lost the participation of the divine nature of God in the eucharist by the second Adam in Christ Jesus.

  Adam and Eve were also tempted at the garden of Eden as a test as we who follow God's commandments are also tempted. So the atonement ( the correction) is once again in participation with God's divinity in the eucharist of Jesus Christ.

 It is how God reveals Himself and how He shows His divinity. He shared His divinity in Adam and if he told the Jews, His creation including humans were just animals we would have no chance of participation in His divinity, because we would not believe in Him revealing Himself to us.

 It is better to veiw creation as coming from the divinity of God so we understand the nature of things rather than what shows at the face value.

 

minasoliman

My dear friend, even medicine can be considered "man-centered". Just because it uses a material basis to scientific fact doesn't mean it's false. It merely means it's "of the world", and like our flesh has no divine life in itself. But the study of science, even evolution, if done for the glory of God, then we acknowledge that God is still the Creator and the science of evolution is nothing to worry about in Orthodox theological perspective:

https://tasbeha.org/community/discussion/15148/the-creeping-pro-test-ant

https://tasbeha.org/community/discussion/15659/evolution-creationism/p1

Also, I have trouble believing creation comes from divinity. Creation comes from non-existence. The divinity created us, but did not form us out of Himself. That can only be said of the Son and the Holy Spirit, not of creation.

To partake of the divine nature and to be formed of the divine nature are two completely different things.

Joshuaa

I understand where you are coming from Mina because of your science background, but when we talk of divinity, we are talking about energy. We don't know God's essence, but we do know God by His energy ( expressed by His divinity ).

minasoliman

I'm not necessarily a fan of energy/essence distinction, not because I'm against it but because of how you use it. Energy is not a "part of divinity", but the divinity in the mode in which He makes Himself known to us, and it's still the fullness of divinity, not part. The divinity is indivisible and cannot be described as "partitioned".

With that said, I'm not concerned with partaking of the divine nature per se. I'm one of the biggest defenders of deification. However you said, and perhaps this could be an issue of bad English:

"It is better to veiw creation as coming from the divinity of God"

Creation does not "come from the divinity", but "created by the divinity". I hope you recognize in English this is a big difference.

Joshuaa

Could be my english Mina. But isn't the mode His energy?

  Luke 8:43-46    Now a woman, having a flow of blood for twelve years, who had spent all her livelihood on physicans and could not be healed by any, 44 came from behind and touched the border of His garment, And immediately her flow of blood stopped. 45 And Jesus said, "Who touched me?" When all denied it, Peter and those with him said, "Master, the multitudes throng and press You, and You say, "Who touched Me?" 46 But Jesus said, "Somebody touched Me, for I percieved power going out of Me."

  Jesus had His divinity, but when the woman touched His garment and she was healed, was it something created as in by the divinity? Or was it an energy coming from Jesus because of His divinity?If it is something created by His divinity, then why doesn't it go out and heal everyone?The multitude in this case. I would assert that it has to come from God. The idea of oneness can mean the joining of something when there is seperation and to have the oneness to be one again, it has to come together.

  In other words, by recieving the eucharist, we partake of the divinity (mysteries) with the second Adam in Jesus Christ and it comes from Him and we recieve it.

minasoliman

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said, neither do I understand your logic behind the contemplation of whether it would heal the multitude or the woman alone.

Yes, I believe the power is His indivisible divine nature come to her in the mode of power. She partake of ALL His divine nature, not a piece of Him.

voltaire

The Coptic Church should take a would on current topics/issues if it had the ability to do so. Unlike most other churches, our church remains bewilderingly neutral on today's important topics. But this is always the stance of the Orthodox Churches. It's a strategy.

Joshuaa

The church has I think by and large, stayed out of politics ( argument ) to keep humble.

voltaire

In that case, @Justice, you can believe whatever you want about evolution.