Atheist crimies

Egyptian1997

Now i speak with an egyptian atheist blogger.The blogger was born as muslim but become atheist.He say me that Islam is a dangerous religion.He say that Catholic christianity in the past make crimies but he say that cant find orthodox christian crimies or coptic crimies.I say to him that i can find atheist crimies.In Soviet union and french revolution atheists kill many peoople more than catholic church. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/541387
He say that this crimies become from exchristians atheists not exmuslims atheists.What i must answer to him?

minasoliman

Most violence committed in history, even by Catholics have absolutely nothing to do with religion:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_1400766.html

That is not to say religion is not a factor.  But it's not the major factor, and many times, it is simply an add-on to something non-religious in its central cause.  Violence and wars occur because we are fallen humans.  To even indirectly blame Christianity for "exChristian atheists" who cause violence is actually very laughable and does not deserve a response.

Now, if there is a religion that promotes killing for a particular cause, then yes, that is dangerous.  But Christianity at its core promotes a different philosophy, in which most Christians actually do not want to practice:  loving the enemy and dying for them.

Mark19

You can look the crimies of soviet atheists against Armenians and Armenian church in Soviet union.

Mark19

You can look the atheist crimies against Orthodx church of Georgia too.

monfret

minasoliman,lol wut?what the catholic church did to the cathars wasn't based on religion?what about the Crusades?what about the inquisition and condemning all muslims to slavery by papal bulls?what about the Genocide and rape of native americans by the spanish,didn't papal bulls lay claim to the land and the natives as property of the roman''church''?what about the mass enslavement of Tupi /Guarani natives by jesuit priests?what about Juniper serra?

the Catholic church is one of the most murderous institutions on the planet and is one of the most backward systems ever devised by man.

Joshuaa

Mina is right in saying to love our enermy and anything else we are called to judgement.
The Roman Catholic church has had many problems throughout history and has not dealt properly with them, but due to how europen was formed and even the world there would undoubtedly be major conflicts. Having to deal with kings and leaders would of brought them to many political situations and further away from solitary needed for spiritual growth.
The Coptic church has been blessed by solitary and to keep its integrity even with Muslim invasion.

The moves away from spiritual life is obvious in some churches history however the answer is that all are judged by their works that come from heart and conscience.

minasoliman

I think you are twisting the facts of history. Statistically speaking, even the Crusades were primarily because of land grabs. Just because we are anti-Catholic by religion does not mean we should misrepresent history. This is what atheists do in order to further their agenda against religion. The truth of the matter is most of these massacres done by Catholics have little to do with Catholicism and more to do with greed and territory.

As this blogger says perfectly:

"Here's the thing. If you write a book called God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, you sell a lot of books. If you write a book called What's So Great About Christianity on the evils of atheism, you also sell a lot of books. If you say that neither extremist viewpoint makes any sense, you end up doing a podcast and working as a greeter at Wal-Mart directing customers to the section where they sell Hitchens and D'Souza books. The truth is less incisive, it's less inflammatory, it raises no ire, and it draws no audience."

Source: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4076

Take a look at each massacre done or committed, tally up the kills, but also research into them to see the main driving force behind them. The world is not black and white, religion vs atheism. There are shades of grey because people worship selfish means rather than ultimate religious purposes, for the most part. There are few exceptions in history, but you can't pin everything on religion, even if religion was tagged to it. A true historian will share with you figures and facts, and not propaganda for their cause. Don't buy into the propaganda.

monfret

Mina,I never said Christianity is violent or has committed atrocities.the Orthodox Oriental church was always pacifist even enduring opression and not rising up with the sword.the Catholic''church''on the other hand has a history of warfare sanctioned by official magisterial bulls.there was a papal bull to enslave all the muslims in Iberia forever.there was a papal bull to enrich the catholic church by enslaving or genociding native indians.the biggest owner of real estate in this world is the catholic church.How  do you think they got it that way?

Yes,I am anti-catholic.I think its a worldly institution that promotes backwardness and is obsessed with power .

minasoliman

Well, your anti-Catholicism is very one-sided and a product of your own upbringing and bias. As someone who continues to read history, while those areas of Roman Catholic history are shameful, I have eventually seen history in a very humbling light. Everyone has skeletons in their closet so to speak because we are fallen humans. So, I don't believe the Roman Catholic Church is backward, worldly, or obsessed with power, but simply have dogmatic errors for which I hope some day will correct. In the meantime, even those papal bulls are condemned by their own, so I do not judge them based on their past associations with parts of history they're not afraid of condemning and feeling ashamed of. Today also the most charitable religion is Catholicism, and we should learn a lot to have social programs like them.

I am anti-Catholic dogmatically, but in all the issues of history and persecution, if that was a reason to hate them, I dig myself in a very weak foundation of my own Orthodox faith, and I live partially for the purpose of hating the other rather than seeing the ultimate good in my Church and hoping to bring that to other people. Furthermore, the Catholic Church does have some level of beauty in their traditions I cannot ignore, many of which emulate their Orthodox past in which I would hope sow the seeds of their own correction. To that I say "Glory to God" for whatever good they may have.

I even say that to others who spend about 90% of their time spewing hate on Islam. I wonder is that really what your Christian faith is based on? To be "anti-" something. The only thing we should be "anti-" is our own propensity to sin and the devil himself.

I hate to look like someone who "defends" the Catholic Church, but frankly, I do get tired of people who come to learn of Oriental Orthodoxy in part because they already grew up to hate the Roman Catholic Church. In order to learn about our Church, you must let go of any hatred, find the good in what you belonged, and then bring your admiration in the Orthodox Church solely for her Orthodoxy and her saints, not for every nook and cranny of history you read. Otherwise, you will be disappointed.

NicholastheCopt

Dear Monfret, you are not exactly correct. The inquisition was not soley based on the Catholic faith but rather to gain favour from the then power obsessed Pope of the Catholic Church. They killed Cathars as they threatened the power of the clergy. The Jesuit priest did not enslave natives but instead saved natives from slavery. These natives converted to the Catholic faith because they were grateful and not because they were forced. The Jesuits got kicked out of Spanish and Portuguese colonies because they were disrupting the slave trade. In summary, it's not the Catholic Church that is evil, but rather the people who use Catholicism as an excuse to do evil deeds.

The Catholic church of today is extremely different and has been through many reforms. Now, the Catholic Church does not give papal bulls to kill or enslave, but instead provides programmes that benefit society. I find that every Copt has the responsibility to defend our Christian brothers from radicals like you. People like you, Monfret is one of the reasons why Copts and Christians are drifting apart.

minasoliman

Calm down Nicholas...no need to throw names at people. We are here having a discussion and correcting ideas.

monfret

He is right on one thing,the Catholic church is not the catholic church of yesteryear,since 1965 there is no more catholic church as all bishops excommunicated themselves upon signing vatican II and its numerous heresies and the catholic church ceased to exist as it has no more apostolicity(and as apostolicae vacantis sedis by the last pope ,pope pius says,during a interregnum noone can ordain a bishop)and could never regain it again.

and natives were FORCED into catholicism,you were put to death if you held native religion,if you used something like peyote or psilocybin  you would be accused of witchcraft  and be put to death immedietely by the spaniards.any native religion was accussed of worshipping demons and practicing witchcraft so they were put to death.the Jesuits just built missions on natives land who many times fought back(Like the guarani) because whence the jesuits came the rapists came and the jesuits brought diseases.look up Juniper Serra,a a catholic''saint''who genocided the natives of california.

and what would the natives be gratefull for?that they didn't get raped and enslaved and butchered to death like columbus did to the Tainos?

I am well aware of amerindian History ,and I can tell you that their  massive slavery went on well into the 20th century in the amazon rubber boom when they were also raped enmasse by good catholics.

most latin americans are Gladly leaving the false demonic faith of catholicism and are becoming pentecostals,wich while not the True oriental orthodox church atleast isn't the religion of their rapists and brutalizers.

monfret

And I think you should read up on the papal bulls wich did in fact condemn the muslims to perpetual slavery in Iberia.a papal bull can never be reproached.that means that the catholic church til this day encourages  iberian muslims to be enslaved.

the cathars were killed because they were a threat to the catholic church yes,how does that help your case?the catholic church had an active policy of torturing any heretic,so that means oriental orthodox christians would be tortured if it weren't for geographical barriers.

again ,
I am accusing the catholic church of these crimes,not the vatican 2 sect .