Estelem Ya 'erees and esmaee ya 'ros in English?

copt333

Hello everyone,

Soon my church will be doing its first fully English sacrament of Holy Matrimony (keeping coptic of course), however I am having some trouble finding the two responses stated in the title sung in English. We have the translated text, however I would like to hear how the response is usually fit into the arabic tune, as often one Arabic word becomes 2-3 English words when translated, making it hard to keep the mapping of the words to the tune original.

Any help would be appreciated, and thanks in advance.

minatasgeel

You can't construct the hazzat syllable to syllable from going from Arabic to English. With Coptic to english, it's just a bit easier, but never fully correct. But guess what, you don't have to in this case. The 2 responses are to be said in the festive watos tune. Meaning that you say them like you say any other festive communion madiha of any feast or festive occasion. 

Jojo_Hanna

@minatasgeel what do you mean, “Festive Wados”?
So the annual distribution Melody of “Our Father”, is the “annual wados” tune?

What then are examples of “Festive Adam”
and “annual Adam” tune?
(If it’s the Morning Dox tune, then I’m on the right track..)

minatasgeel

Our Father is annual watos yes.

Example of festive watos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkKrvScD5w

That was a random video i searched for quickly online

The thing with 'adam' tunes is that they don't change much. That's why the Adam tune for tamgeed of "Epouro" doesn't change and that's why all those tamgeed madayeh have the same tune through out the year. And the adam doxologies, that no one really says anymore, follow that tune also. 

Jojo_Hanna

How about the Adam Morning Doxology tune?
Why is that called “Adam”?

copt333

@minatasgeel
Thanks very much

minatasgeel

The entire morning doxology in text is of the Adam structure, musically. The 7 ways that are chanted on the major feasts, are all considered Adam too.

Jojo_Hanna

Speaking of the 7ways, do you know anything about the origin of this hymn?
Meaning, when did this come into place?
Why is it sung on Feasts?
Can it be sung on all Lordly Feasts?
Or most importantly, how come those specific tunes go with those specific verses ?!!

minatasgeel

Some of the info I found as i skimmed through Abouna Athanasius Elmakary books:

1-The teno-osht parts were added later while the Pi-o-oinee parts are as ancient as the 7th century. 

2-The original rite included the Teno-osht parts as the verses of cymbals (if needed for time to abouna finish the procession) and Pi-o-oinee as the actual Mornding Doxology be said after the Litany of the Sick

3-Things moved around for annual liturgies except for the 3 major feasts where the rite was not changed...more like changed the least. That's why those 3 liturgies are prayed after sunset as the original rite of doing them.

ophadece

I believe that the original rite was for the liturgies to start later at night / early hours of the morning with midnight chants starting slightly earlier to accommodate the start of the liturgy. I am not even sure that vespers was prayed adjacent to the start of midnight chants anyway, hence the complex set of teachings we ended up with nowadays.. Those were the days when the Coptic Orthodox canons stipulated (not suggested) that the faithful take feast days off work as the liturgy would finish close to daybreak.. I am still learning though..
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