41 Kyrie eleiison in Arabic

Yoan

Hi,

I'm trying to learn the congregation responses in Arabic but couldn't find written what we say during the 41 Kyrie eleiison:

- Kyrie eleiison, Kyrie eleiison, have mercy on us O Lord

- Kyrie eleiison, Kyrie eleiison, hear us and have mercy

Can someone write in Arabic letters (not english transliterated) what I put in green?

Yoan.

mabsoota

the first one is 'Lord have mercy', which is not in your list, so all 3 (the first one and the 2 you asked for) are here:

(techinically there should be a little sqiggle on the letter alef of 'allah', but i didn't find it yet on my keyboard, if anyone knows where it is, please chip in!)

يا رب ارحم

ارحمنا يا الله

اسمعنا و ارحمنا

Yoan

Thank you very much mabsoota.

The word God is well written to me, are you refering to a hamza on top on the 3alif like this: أ

On my mac it's shift+B

Or a tild to make it an 3alif maddah like this: آ

On my mac it's shift+H

mabsoota

on my lenovo, i get a hamza with shift + H

when i do shift + B, i get a lam-alef with alef maddah, so 

now i can do shift + B, then go back one space and delete the lam and now i get what i want!

thanks to you and we thank God!

نشكر آلله

;)

Yoan

I've noticed that on Tasbeha.org and Coptic Reader, they put the "tanween fatha" sometimes on the silent 3alif and sometimes on the letter before the silent 3alif. Here's some examples:

- ولروحك أيضًا.

- والمجد لله دائماً.

What is the proper way to place the "tanween fatha"?

mabsoota

hope some native arabic speakers can help here, but i think it has to be on the alef, as it is changing the sound 'a' into 'aan'

are you a native speaker, yoan, or are you a foreigner like me?

mabsoota

also, i don't want to start a revolution, but there are errors in coptic reader...

ophadece

Hi @Yoan,
I cannot agree more with @mabsoota - I lived in Egypt for 28 years and I was taught it should be on the alef exactly for the reason @mabsoota mentioned. However I am increasingly coming across more and more writings even in newspapers that are putting it on the next to last letter! It does not cut it with me and I refuse to change my style from what I have been taught.. Perhaps it is modernising the language I don't know..
And yes Coptic reader is full of mistakes.. It is still a huge blessing though - just please don't use it in the church.. I am appalled to see this invasion of mobile phones, iPads, TV screens inside the house of the Lord when we have books to cover everything and all occasions - books are a symbol of knowledge not mere media - they encourage and stimulate the brain not just the eyes.. Reading is certainly different and above all church books are dedicated to the church which is not true for other stuff
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ

mabsoota

i know i am chatting with myself here (i am not working today - yay!)

but i have found the correct place for the mark (tanween fatha) on p144 of my 'teach yourself arabic' book (which i bought in 2005 and haven't quite finished yet).

it is definitely on top of the alif.

but i have seen it all over the place in various prayer books, so maybe it is above my pay grade...

mabsoota

and here is a good link to help us understand it:

http://www.rememberarabic.com/articles/tanween

Yoan

Thanks both of you for your answers :)

To answer your question mabsoota, I'm not Egyptian at all, but French married to an Egyptian girl, living in Australia.

Because my wife and I serve often in upper Egypt (half a year every year), I learned Egyptian Arabic. But when I lead a Liturgy over there, I only do full Coptic as they wouldn't understand if I speak in English, so I started learning the Arabic responses for them.

By the way, by searching for Arabic grammar stuff, I came across the keyboard shortcut to do the alef maddah on windows, it should be shift +n.

mabsoota

for some reason, your last phrase came in grey:

alef maddah on windows, it should be shift +n.

thanks for your helpful hint (merci beaucoup!)

may God give you peace and grace in your service.

ophadece, maybe it could be modernisation, sometimes these things change. 

a few things changed in romanian spelling after i learnt it and i had to relearn a few things.

as for screens in church, i sometimes wonder if we are supposed to be singing;

'wireless network not available'...

;)

at least in the cathedral in the south of england, the screens show a page number only - it helps people find the right page in the book.

:)

ophadece

@mabsoota
I agree with you - I was having a similar discussion with a colleague at work about our extreme reliance on computers these days and telephones that when they are down we feel paralysed and unable to work. How can we ever let this happen to us in the house of the Lord? We should remove the ties binding us to the world even though they can be used to be media for the Word of God, but so can be TVs, supermarkets, vehicles, etc.. Have we become obsessed with worldly possessions that we need to take them inside the church?
Ⲟⲩϫⲁⲓ ϧⲉⲛ ⲡϭⲥ