Logic

Luke90

Hey everyone, I was having a very interesting conversation with a friend of mine recently, and we started talking about logic (don't ask me how we got there, I've got a horrible memory.) Anyways, later in the conversation I said "You can't know God through logic alone." He didn't agree.

What you should know is that my friend is really big on philosophy. He loves reading stuff like Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Descartes, etc . What he got from all that stuff is a strong belief in logic and how logic is the most important thing in a man. I don't agree, however, I'm a horrible debator, a can never make a good argument. What I tried to say was that you can only know God through your heart, that to be with God is to love God, not to reason to him. I made an analogy that logic vs. emotion is like water vs. oil, they never mix.

What do you guys think of this? "Can you know God through logic alone?" Thanks very much, God be with you. +

Unknown

Can you know God through logic alone?

No.

Logic may testify to certain truths of God, but it is neither capable of proving nor disproving God. The Bible makes it clear that no one Confesses that Christ is Lord but by the Spirit of God, and that no one comes to Son unless he/she is drawn by the Father Himself. It is Gods' testimony within us, and our response to His Grace that ultimately leads one to true faith such that even the most simplest of minds, devoid of all reasonable logical skills may discover the truth of God, which the greatest philosopher is unable to grasp.

If your friend is not a Christian, then don’t expect him to understand this; and as follows from my answer, no amount of logic can convince him that logic cannot reveal God to man (if I said otherwise I would be contradicting myself obviously). If he is an Orthodox Christian, then he is not being faithful to His Orthodoxy which proclaims the transcends and mystery of God; it’s either the eternal truth of Orthodoxy or fallible human philosophy; his choice.

The following is taken from Bishop Kallistos Ware's The Orthodox Way:

spr418

oh my god that is cool but where did you get it?

Grigorii

Dearest to Christ Sandrahanna,

The above was taken from HG Bishop Kallistos Ware "The Orthodox Way" a small book, with great lessons for us all. It will probably be available on Amazon.com and if not, pls PM me and I will give you the adress of St. Vladimir Seminary Press where I am sure it is available cos I saw them there,.. in their bookstore on campus.

IC XC

Grigorii

Ps. Luke90 logic is a creaturely set of concepts and thinking, so that logic is by nature limited as is all creation. The Creator is by Nature unlimited, and it is therefore logically impossible that a created conception (such as logic) fully encompass the Unlimited. Logic has limits beyond which it cannot go. Logic does not, and cannot suffice to fully know God. Logic can only help structure and shape our understanding of God as he reveals Himself to us. The basic category to know God is revelation, which takes place in the heart, not logic.

u_stole_my_name

DUUUUDDDDEEEE!!!!!.....Do you hear what yous guys are saying?? Listen to yourselves!! You're using logic to formulate the above arguments to begin with! How do you know that "ultimate being cannot be known by logic" unless the quoted sentence itself follows logically? And don't say because of revelation, because it is only by logic that we can understand revelation or indeed gauge whether or not some revelation is trustworthy! Otherwise we are running around in circles.

puszekjr

I believe the soul is truly the choosing faculty of the human being (refer to this - http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1967.)
Because of this belief, I also believe that logic is necessary in the process of becoming closer with God and also in beginning to truly believe in God. Logic is the most obvious tool of the soul and it is with our whole souls we must believe in God. Faith itself, and revelation, some things inherently unlogical must play a greater role in believing in God and living the Gospel, i.e. love, compassion, mercy. But logic, being the foremost tool of the soul in philosophy and understanding (again refer to the aforementioned thread) must be convinced by the Spirit within us through logic. The most obvious and simple proof is that of the mere fact that all men have consciences.

The conscience is the connection between the soul and the Spirit - most clearly, the voice of the Spirit communicating with the soul. Man's realization that he has a conscience can logically lead him to believe that the Spirit is within him, again logically leading him to believe in the magnificent existence of the Lord. Logic must play a role, even if it be a miniscule one.

u_stole_my_name

I'm willing to make some concessions: perhaps logic is useful insofar as knowing that God is beyond logic...whereupon we begin to know Him in other ways. But we would still have to use logic to know that fact.