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Baptism
To enter the kingdom of god, one must be baptized; however, what if they are baptized in a church other than the Orthodox Church. For example, a protestant person who is a good Christian, follows the commandments, and lives by the bible. Does the type of church they are baptized in effect anything. I think it does, for if it didn’t, why is it mandatory that a person be baptized to receive communion in our church if they are already baptized in another church? The whole idea behind baptism is to receive the Holy Spirit, and I don’t think the Holy Spirit varies depending on the church. Somebody please help me understand when baptism plays a role in our religion and how it coincides with other religions of the Christian faith.
God Bless You All
God Bless You All
Comments
To enter the kingdom of god, one must be baptized; however, what if they are baptized in a church other than the Orthodox Church. For example, a protestant person who is a good Christian, follows the commandments, and lives by the bible. Does the type of church they are baptized in effect anything. I think it does, for if it didn’t, why is it mandatory that a person be baptized to receive communion in our church if they are already baptized in another church? The whole idea behind baptism is to receive the Holy Spirit, and I don’t think the Holy Spirit varies depending on the church. Somebody please help me understand when baptism plays a role in our religion and how it coincides with other religions of the Christian faith.
God Bless You All
I think baptism is done to announce that we are the children of god. just like what happened to jesus, and the bird come on and said this is my son.
God bless
I think that with respect to the Coptic Orthodox Church it differs from which Church did the non Coptic get his baptism. There are some Churches which have common acceptance for all Sacrements with the Coptic Church. That means their people can have communion in the Coptic Church and Coptic people can have communion in their Churches with no problem. Regarding the other Churches they have first to discuss these differences with the Coptic Church before allowing the common Sacrements between the 2 Chuches.
The key point is : The common Faith should lead to the common Sacrements and not the opposite.
I know that long time ago, for example, if a Greek Orthodox person wanted to get married in Coptic Orthodox Church, this person had to get Baptized again. Few years ago, the 2 Churches agreed to recognize each other and they discovered that their Faith is the same but they just express it differently but they both mean the same thing. As a result, now there is no need anymore to get baptized again if a Greek Orthodox marries with a Coptic Orthodox.
The problem nowadays there are a lot of new sects which appear and call themselves Christian. You can not allow them to get Communion in the Church. I heard lately there is a Sect which makes mass and pray for Satan and they even have Communion in the name of Satan and more than that they call themselves Christian. How can you recognize their Baptism
(I do not know if they make Baptism in name of Satan as well or not?).
I think that's why we have to put this problem:
1) First, in the hands of God who want all people to be saved.
2) Second, in the hands of our Churches leaders to try to solve this problem.
In the meantime, the only thing we can do is just to pray for the Unity of all Churches exactly as Our Lord Jesus made during his Last Supper
that all His Followers should be one as Him and The Father are ONE. (John 17:11).
I hope I clarified a little bit.
Thank you and pray for me.
KF
I think that the validity of Baptism depends on the Faith of the Church in which the person gets baptised. Because getting baptised in a certain Church means that the person is following the Faith of that Church. Therefore, if the Church Faith is correct, the Baptism is valid but if the Church Faith is wrong, the Baptism can never be valid. Like the case of the sect which adorates
Satan, how can it baptize people to become sons of God? Of course this can not be.
And again if the Baptism is invalid and the person himself is good, he may be judged by God as a non-Christian. In that case, he can be treated in the way we discussed in the topic :
"what happens when a baby dies b4 baptism?????".
I hope I clarified a little bit.
Thank you and pray for me.
KF
I'm not sure about all Protestants, but there were seven groups of Protestants over in Poland who, in June of 1999 A.D., agreed with the Roman Catholic Pope's view on baptism.
There are some protestant churches which are very dedicated and their love for Jesus is a sacrifical and true one. I believe that if someone gets baptized by a church who truly loves God but who doesnt know or understand his will exactly and might do the baptizing in a slightly wrong way, but the person is not aware of this and is believing he truly is baptized and he loves and depends on and is not ashamed of Jesus and his faith is backed by actions of love and service - i can only believe that this person is saved.
Here when im talking about protestants im not meaning the truly protestant only, but all churches without a pope.
For a very simple reason...
Baptism means you enter into the Church. Protestant baptism is not entering into the Church. Good intentions does not mean correct beliefs. Hindus have good intentions.
Let's not be politically correct here. Yes love the other, but don't fool them with false kindness and pseudo-acceptance.
The bible says in every nation whoever fears God is accepted by Him. Encourage them to repent and God will make sure they become orthodox if they want the truth
as Cornelius was even given a vision to show him what he must do but they also must seek the truth to find if they can know what they must do which means they will be open to see a miracle which confirms orthodoxy
Love covers a multitude of sins. Does it also cover this?
Maybe there are not persons like that, maybe any person who has that faith and love will know that they need proper baptism.
But I have something to say
Jesus said we should take the plank out of our eye before we remove the speck out of another's
If we are going to judge people for not being perfect in obeying all the commandments then we better make sure we are perfect for He who stumbles in one point is guilty of all the law. If you say you don't have to be free of all sin but struggling to repent of all sin well a Protestant may be struggling with Protestantism and want to get out and be orthodox but he can not
Therefore your imperfections that are not repented of are only forgiven by not judging Protestants also
The other point of removing the plank first is being able to see the Protestants real problem with not accepting orthodoxy they may know all the bible verses you say but they interpret it differently or they have a different problem. Therefore St. Paul said have grace in your heart that you may know how you ought to answer each one
Therefore praying for others is important for God to open their heart and to see God is fair to their family and asking God for words and when to use words if it will also help. Therefore if people do not agree we should hope they are saved that they have not really known orthodoxy
It was said about Jesus that a bruised reed He would not break. Therefore He always showed His message as good news so that anyone who wished to be good was able to be good.
It is very important to care about the well being of our brother like the father of the prodigal son that rejoiced that he was safe and sound and st anthony says our life and death is with our brother. Therefore our words should not harm our brothers salvation at all
'Be extremely careful not to offend anyone in word or deed, for it is a grave sin. When someone is offended, God, who loves the man, is also offended, for there can be no offending man without offending God.'
St Tikhon of Zadonsk
I listened briefly to a protestant radio the other day and the commentator puzzled why there were monks living in the desert? Then said a Christian is someone who is supposed to be social as Jesus wants us to spread His message of salvation. The commentator did not understand the contribution monks make in prayer for the church and their own salvation. It is a differcult situation, but yes repentance is the answer because forgiveness develops trust.
They may not have the fullness but they think they do and they may convince themselves such because they think if God insists them to be baptised even supposing He need not prove it to the whole family why He does not if His family sincerely desires to please God according to their conscience as a Protestant because they think some people will give up hope in God for making an earthly observance more important than being merciful to people who didn't do it though they should have/ideally but they thought whether right or wrong they would push people away fron Christ and harm their hope in God
If I want the other person to know the fullness of truth, I do not go in a triumphalist way and say to them you must convert. No, I develop a relationship with them. I show them the beauty of the Church in me. I become an example without judgment.
You see, and I'm going to be very blunt out of love here Mike. An honest Christian will appreciate my honesty for my disagreements with his/her Protestantism. If they are truly "Christian", they will see themselves in me in what I try to portray to them. If they walk away from my honesty, then what type of Christ do they really believe in?
Furthermore, my honesty will also reveal I am the worst of sinners. So when I talk to them about Orthodoxy, I am mindful of my unworthiness, and I ask Christ to speak through me.
Finally, any way of hiding Orthodoxy to a Protestant under the disguise of judgmentalism is not only wrong, but SATANIC. It is a Satanic deception that you equate sharing the truth of the Church with judging the other to condemnation. It this weakness Mike that you have. I speak to you as a loving brother, this is a deception you are under because you are afraid of sharing the truth thinking you will offend them.
True Christians will not be offended because they do the same thing to others. They want to share the truth to non-Christians and sinners like all of us. It's like sharing something beautiful that you do not want to keep to yourself. It's not sharing of condemnation. And when they understand that in you, they may not be convinced, they may not be converted, they may not ever agree with you, but they will appreciate your love and honesty and your friendship with them will be stronger.
Sharing the faith with respectful disagreement in love is not judgement, it is sharing and caring. "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly." John 7:24
God bless you Mike. Forgive me for the boldness, but nothing I said is meant for offense but for love and correction.