If there is no common reference on such matters that can be consulted and made the standard, it will be hard and even impossible to convince anybody with the christian view. People have different religious standards, and that is why the continue talking past each other.
When it comes to premarital sex, there is no way to tackle this issue unless your discussion partner or opponent (depending on how the conversation turns out) understand the purpose of sex, in its holy and pure meaning, as we Orthodox understand it.
Forgive me for the way I am about to say this..but I will just say it to get a point across. A simple answer for people to understand is that if you have sex with someone...you kinda "own" their body...sorry for using that word but that's what most people think...is that you "own" the other gender body. If you love someone...and you want to "own" that and just make it yours...then wouldn't you want to wait until you really have all of them...not just their body but their heart and commitement as well. Or would you rather let them be owned by multiple people and by the devil...because once you commit it with them...it's no longer yours...because you gave up to the devil...and it would be owned by the devil not by you.
From an orthodox point of view which might be a bit harder to explain it to non-orthodox is that once you are in a marriage you are in a unity between the other person and most importantly between God. Before marrige, yes two people love each other and God is between them...but there is no unity YET...they are still two seperate people...how can you become one body (sex) but not one heart one thought and most importantly one soul in Christ. Marriage does that to you...it doesn't only unite the two bodies...but it makes those two people have one heart and one soul because there heart and soul in now in Christ and we know how wonderful that is to have everything in Christ. Hope that kinda of helped Pray for me, Marianne
I honestly do not see the point of pre-marital sex. If two people really love each other, how could they be thinking about that to begin with, if you really love the other person u shouldnt be thinking about their body, the real beauty is the beauty of the soul, the beauty of their heart, not of the body.
And then sleeping with another person before marriage is wrong in all ways, if the person really loved you, he wouldnt have done that, and if he is only using you, that will only end up hurting you a lot. And then even if u thought u liked each other, but later broke up, you would still have endless memories of what you did, and some people can never get over it or be able to go on in life
If these kids are Christian, they should know, that their bodies are temples of the holy spirit, and God dwells inside each and everyone of us, so how could we then defile our bodies, and sin not only against ourselves, but against God Himself, who lives in us! We should also try to be pure, just as our heavenly Father is pure. We as orthodox christians were all baptized and anointed with the mayroun oil, so that every part of our body might be pure, so we shouldnt use the body that God gave us in any sinful way.
The aspirations and desires of men, especailly youth can never be categorized within a system of tenants. Thus, I do not think any answer can ever provide a systematic means of resolving a moral and ethical issue that is soley based on the premise of one's world belief. However, consider what I have to say for a moment:
These kids believe that their worldview is a coherent one because they are assimilating into the cultural "norm" of society. Sex is ok as long as society approves of it.
Break down their world view and you will end up cornering them into a position where they can not help but admit they are anyhting but Christian like.
The person who believes that right and wrong is based on the popluar choice of society is pre-supposing that moral values are not absolute (not permanant).
Yet, if there are no objective moral values (values that do not change), then there can not be a God. If there is no absolute good or absolute evil, then God does not exist. But think about that proposition for a moment......
No objective moral values means there's no absolute evil in the world. This would suggest that incidents like the Holocust, child abuse, rape, murder and terrorism are not evil acts. They merely acts that society thinks is "disadvantageous" or "annoying" for the majority of people. Such acts can never truly be evil, because there is no absolute, unchanging law that implies such acts would be evil.
Try enlightening your friends of their apparently self-defeating of belief systems. If they believe sex is ok because society implies so, then they don't believe in God's decison over the matter. God has become insignificant. Therfore, they really shouldn't be believing in pure evil or good...considering that such values only exist only if God is in the picture. Therfore, when someone chucks a pencil at your friend, calls them names, steals their belongings, places gum in their hair, and spill water all over them.....it is perfectly OK.Afterall, evil is relative (based on what a person believes at any given moment). There is no such thing as absolute evil.
Unless,.....God really does exist and His writtten word is absolute truth. In which case, sex is clearly secured for those in the sacrament of marriage and never beforehand.
Your friends must choose their pick..... a relativistic view of abstinence that suggests that moral values are reativistic and that the repsect they deserve is also relativistic. Or, an absolute view that moral values are not relativistic, that the respect they are given should not be subject to change--that sex is absolutley wrong before marriage.
Be sure to inform them that they should be considerate of what they choose......for it might really come true.
You know, people spend more time trying to make up their own religion rather than reading the Bible to get their facts straight..you can tell them those facts and have your biblical backup and then when they give you that 'love' nonsense, ask them for their reasoning...99.99999999999% of the time, they look at you weird, then start in an angry rage with the word 'CUZ!' and then it all goes downhill..but you come out victorious ;)
hey, it's been a while since I logged on to this site. I haven't read everything here, but I will give you my two cents on premarital sex, because alot of us, or maybe all of us will be faced with it one day in this society of the now. First off, what is the point of premarital sex? If you have answered that you wish to show the other party that you love them and that you're meant to be, then you should perhaps rethink of this answer... Premarital sex does not prove anything. In fact, it hurts both parties involved. 1) diseases may occur to one or both parties. 2) what if this person is not the one true person you're meant to be with? 3) Are you willign to risk that chance? do u want to be happy for the rest of ur life? or do u want to regret it? if you do have premarital sex, and then this person leaves you for w.e. reason, your reputation is down the drain in that way. No one will look at you the same and this may affect your chances of becoming involved with another party whom you think you will marry and spend the rest of your life with. 4) Why would u stain somehting so precious as this that two people under God share in union--physical expression of becoming one after marriage, with somehtign as stupid as pre-marital sex--which has no meaning watsoever--and does not prove true love. True love is when you actually spend your life with ONE person who you are married to! it's not some one night stand premarital sex as illustrated on tv and you probably knwo of people in school or wherever that went through this. Premarital sex is simply not an answer to beign affectionate towards one person. Sex is somehitng liek a gift a man and woman share under the union by God---in marriage. and it should be somehitng special and not casual. even if everyone aroudn you is havign sex with other partners, do not be brainwashed by it, or peer-pressured into it. You knwo uve been taght by your parents and ur church the right thing, because it makes sense. Abstinence from sex is the right way until marriage. Before then, it's a sin, which we, as orhtodox Christians, do not adhere to, and will not be pressured into, even if the whoel world makes it seem so right.
I hope everyhitng i said makes sense, and for those who have experienced anything ive talked about, u should seek guidance, asap and do not hesitate to talk to a close friend or ur FOC or even a close tunt... or u can post here annonymously.. :)
have a goodnight and i hoep i havent offended neone.. or went offtopic.. peace
also another point i forgot to mention is when you have kids, you would want to tell them the right thing, and u need to certainly be the example for them. kids r alot liek their parents
Comments
When it comes to premarital sex, there is no way to tackle this issue unless your discussion partner or opponent (depending on how the conversation turns out) understand the purpose of sex, in its holy and pure meaning, as we Orthodox understand it.
A simple answer for people to understand is that if you have sex with someone...you kinda "own" their body...sorry for using that word but that's what most people think...is that you "own" the other gender body. If you love someone...and you want to "own" that and just make it yours...then wouldn't you want to wait until you really have all of them...not just their body but their heart and commitement as well. Or would you rather let them be owned by multiple people and by the devil...because once you commit it with them...it's no longer yours...because you gave up to the devil...and it would be owned by the devil not by you.
From an orthodox point of view which might be a bit harder to explain it to non-orthodox is that once you are in a marriage you are in a unity between the other person and most importantly between God. Before marrige, yes two people love each other and God is between them...but there is no unity YET...they are still two seperate people...how can you become one body (sex) but not one heart one thought and most importantly one soul in Christ. Marriage does that to you...it doesn't only unite the two bodies...but it makes those two people have one heart and one soul because there heart and soul in now in Christ and we know how wonderful that is to have everything in Christ.
Hope that kinda of helped
Pray for me,
Marianne
And then sleeping with another person before marriage is wrong in all ways, if the person really loved you, he wouldnt have done that, and if he is only using you, that will only end up hurting you a lot. And then even if u thought u liked each other, but later broke up, you would still have endless memories of what you did, and some people can never get over it or be able to go on in life
If these kids are Christian, they should know, that their bodies are temples of the holy spirit, and God dwells inside each and everyone of us, so how could we then defile our bodies, and sin not only against ourselves, but against God Himself, who lives in us! We should also try to be pure, just as our heavenly Father is pure. We as orthodox christians were all baptized and anointed with the mayroun oil, so that every part of our body might be pure, so we shouldnt use the body that God gave us in any sinful way.
These kids believe that their worldview is a coherent one because they are assimilating into the cultural "norm" of society. Sex is ok as long as society approves of it.
Break down their world view and you will end up cornering them into a position where they can not help but admit they are anyhting but Christian like.
The person who believes that right and wrong is based on the popluar choice of society is pre-supposing that moral values are not absolute (not permanant).
Yet, if there are no objective moral values (values that do not change), then there can not be a God. If there is no absolute good or absolute evil, then God does not exist. But think about that proposition for a moment......
No objective moral values means there's no absolute evil in the world. This would suggest that incidents like the Holocust, child abuse, rape, murder and terrorism are not evil acts. They merely acts that society thinks is "disadvantageous" or "annoying" for the majority of people. Such acts can never truly be evil, because there is no absolute, unchanging law that implies such acts would be evil.
Try enlightening your friends of their apparently self-defeating of belief systems. If they believe sex is ok because society implies so, then they don't believe in God's decison over the matter. God has become insignificant. Therfore, they really shouldn't be believing in pure evil or good...considering that such values only exist only if God is in the picture. Therfore, when someone chucks a pencil at your friend, calls them names, steals their belongings, places gum in their hair, and spill water all over them.....it is perfectly OK. Afterall, evil is relative (based on what a person believes at any given moment). There is no such thing as absolute evil.
Unless,.....God really does exist and His writtten word is absolute truth. In which case, sex is clearly secured for those in the sacrament of marriage and never beforehand.
Your friends must choose their pick..... a relativistic view of abstinence that suggests that moral values are reativistic and that the repsect they deserve is also relativistic. Or, an absolute view that moral values are not relativistic, that the respect they are given should not be subject to change--that sex is absolutley wrong before marriage.
Be sure to inform them that they should be considerate of what they choose......for it might really come true.
God Bless
that was incredible ;)
http://www.copticnet.com/Books/English Books/Fr. Tadros Malaty/Love Its Concepts & Levels.pdf
I haven't read everything here, but I will give you my two cents on premarital sex, because alot of us, or maybe all of us will be faced with it one day in this society of the now.
First off, what is the point of premarital sex?
If you have answered that you wish to show the other party that you love them and that you're meant to be, then you should perhaps rethink of this answer...
Premarital sex does not prove anything. In fact, it hurts both parties involved. 1) diseases may occur to one or both parties. 2) what if this person is not the one true person you're meant to be with? 3) Are you willign to risk that chance? do u want to be happy for the rest of ur life? or do u want to regret it? if you do have premarital sex, and then this person leaves you for w.e. reason, your reputation is down the drain in that way. No one will look at you the same and this may affect your chances of becoming involved with another party whom you think you will marry and spend the rest of your life with. 4) Why would u stain somehting so precious as this that two people under God share in union--physical expression of becoming one after marriage, with somehtign as stupid as pre-marital sex--which has no meaning watsoever--and does not prove true love. True love is when you actually spend your life with ONE person who you are married to! it's not some one night stand premarital sex as illustrated on tv and you probably knwo of people in school or wherever that went through this.
Premarital sex is simply not an answer to beign affectionate towards one person.
Sex is somehitng liek a gift a man and woman share under the union by God---in marriage. and it should be somehitng special and not casual.
even if everyone aroudn you is havign sex with other partners, do not be brainwashed by it, or peer-pressured into it.
You knwo uve been taght by your parents and ur church the right thing, because it makes sense. Abstinence from sex is the right way until marriage.
Before then, it's a sin, which we, as orhtodox Christians, do not adhere to, and will not be pressured into, even if the whoel world makes it seem so right.
I hope everyhitng i said makes sense, and
for those who have experienced anything ive talked about, u should seek guidance, asap and do not hesitate to talk to a close friend or ur FOC or even a close tunt...
or u can post here annonymously.. :)
have a goodnight and i hoep i havent offended neone.. or went offtopic..
peace
when you have kids, you would want to tell them the right thing, and u need to certainly be the example for them.
kids r alot liek their parents
alright im out!