[quote author=Gods kid link=board=1;threadid=4421;start=60#msg62460 date=1161979805] [quote author=vassilios link=board=1;threadid=4421;start=45#msg61914 date=1160473990] As far as Im aware, she cannot enter nor participate the holy communion out of respect (its as if she's not fasting).
How is it as if she is not fasting if she didn't eat?
is there any evidence to support this ?
Does anyone know the answer to this?
umm this is purely a guess but maybe its because our Mother St Mary left the temple at that age ?
My understanding was that if a woman has her period, she cannot have communion and that's because she's unclean. I don't think "unclean" spiritually... i think its unclean physically... and there's nothing unclean or dirty about ahving a period, i think when we say "unclean" - it means - it would be like me having communion when i've just finished playing a 10 hour rugby match: i'd be all sweating and sticky, i'd need a shower...
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=4421.msg71886#msg71886 date=1180952165] My understanding was that if a woman has her period, she cannot have communion and that's because she's unclean. I don't think "unclean" spiritually... i think its unclean physically... and there's nothing unclean or dirty about ahving a period, i think when we say "unclean" - it means - it would be like me having communion when i've just finished playing a 10 hour rugby match: i'd be all sweating and sticky, i'd need a shower...
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
maybe u can read the last five pages of this topic to find ur answer.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=4421.msg71891#msg71891 date=1180956432] [quote author=vassilios link=topic=4421.msg71886#msg71886 date=1180952165] My understanding was that if a woman has her period, she cannot have communion and that's because she's unclean. I don't think "unclean" spiritually... i think its unclean physically... and there's nothing unclean or dirty about ahving a period, i think when we say "unclean" - it means - it would be like me having communion when i've just finished playing a 10 hour rugby match: i'd be all sweating and sticky, i'd need a shower...
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
maybe u can read the last five pages of this topic to find ur answer.
Mina, Iqbal didnt give an answer yet on this topic! I'm only listening to Iqbal/John(Anglican)/Orthodox11 and HizzChild. They are professional Christians who can provide professional answers.
When they do provide an answer, feel free to give me the link. Regards,
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=4421.msg71892#msg71892 date=1180956726] Mina, Iqbal didnt give an answer yet on this topic! I'm only listening to Iqbal/John(Anglican)/Orthodox11 and HizzChild. They are professional Christians who can provide professional answers.
well great to hear you do have some one that u agree with. just don't wait for my answer since it's not a professional Christian one.
i don't know why i botherd searching but anywys, Iqbal did reply to this:
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=4421.msg60947#msg60947 date=1158547470] His Grace Bishop Youssef says concerning this issue:
The Second Canon of St. Dionysius, the thirteenth Archbishop of Alexandria, and student of Origen who lived, in the mid-third Century states:
“Concerning menstrous women, whether they ought to enter the temple of God while in such a state, I think it superfluous even to put the question. For I opine, not even they themselves, being faithful and pious, would dare when in this state either to approach the Holy Table or to touch the body and blood of Christ.”
To support his opinion, Dionysus refers to the New Testament, “For even the woman who had the 12-year discharge and was eager for a cure touched not him but only his fringe.” And finally, rooting the purity law in ancient Jewish tradition, he explicitly conflates Christian altar space with Temple space, stating that anyone “who is not completely pure in both soul and body shall be prevented from approaching the holy and the holy of holies.”
It is important that the holiness of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ be kept within us after the Holy Communion. A person bleeding for any reason either due to a physical illness, menstruation or a cut should not partake of the Holy Communion. In such cases we consider them as non-fasting and not unclean.
This Is H.H. Pope Shenouda's Answer regarding mesntration and the Eucharist: from his book: Dogmatic Questions IV (which can be downloaded from www.copticpope.orgB Kinda long but hey, it answers all your questions:
Is it allowed for a woman while menstruating to receive Communion, and if not, why not? Because after all, this is something natural which she can't help. And if she just sits down at home, is she allowed to worship privately, to pray and read the Bible etc.? Answer: At home she can worship God however she likes at this time of the month, but if she takes Communion in church, or outside it, this is absolutely not allowed. A person is not permitted to receive Communion if blood is flowing from his body, and this applies to both sexes, and it also applies to any secretion of a sexual nature: this is clear from the Bible. There are many Biblical texts and many Church regulations which confirm this point and have made it clear for people to understand. But someone might plead that it isn't fair on women, since nothing comparable applies to men. For when men have wet dreams or if any discharge comes from their bodies, they can still enter Church and no-one is likely to prevent them, and no rules can be enforced against them. So why should this happen to women? Perhaps someone might ask that there are some men who aren't deacons but who nevertheless enter the sanctuary and take Communion. How is that so? In actual fact, this was only ever permitted to the king who had been crowned in the Orthodox manner, and had been anointed with the holy oil in view of the fact that he was the Lord's anointed. As for other people entering, perhaps they have another reason for doing so which could be one of the following: Many of the men who do this have actually been admitted to one of the lower degrees of deacon, but might not be wearing their proper deacon's dress at the time that they enter the sanctuary, as they should, and this is a mistake which the Church is trying to remedy, by forbidding all deacons from entering the sanctuary, even those decreed to be at one of the lower levels, but who don't happen to be serving or wearing their tunics on that day. But there is also another mistake which I have observed which has been necessitated really by a professional situation which is that some men, such as builders, engineers or decorators might need to enter the sanctuary during the course of their work, but this obviously wouldn't be during a service. In a similar way, it might be necessary at times for painters, television or radio men to enter the sanctuary. The answer is that the most the man is permitted to do is to enter the church after having cleansed himself bodily, but he is not allowed to receive Communion. There is a basic difference though between the kind of discharge coming from the man and the woman, which is that: the man's is incidental and temporary, whereas the woman's continues for several days. The following point, however, would make them both equal and that is if the man's discharge were continuous, he would also be forbidden to take the communion in exactly the same way. But there remains the point that it is not the woman's fault, that it is something natural which she can't help. No, it's nobody's fault: there is nothing wrong in it, and noone is being blamed but God just wants to always remind us of the first sin of mankind. If we are mindful of that first sin, we are more likely to value the ransom paid out for us. The wages of sin is death, and even though Christ died for us, He still left us with a mark to remember this by, which is for men, that "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food" and for women, that "with pain you will give birth to children. " (Gen. 3:19,18) In the case of pregnancy, the woman's menstruation stops, and she is reminded of Eve's original sin by the pains of pregnancy, birth and delivery, and outside the period of pregnancy she recalls her sin at the time of menstruation and this makes her realise how much her sins forbid her from receiving holy blessings, not only those which are associated with Communion and the Church. Men, on the other hand, are reminded of their first sin because they are supposed to labour throughout their lives on account of earning their daily bread. The remembrance of this is the aim, though the means might vary enormously. It would be better for us to try and derive spiritual benefit from thinking more deeply about the meaning of these things rather than complaining about them.
Interesting...the women who was bleeding was allowed to touch Jesus Christ... where in the bible does it say that a woman can't have communion during menstruation. By the way, it is biologically wrong to say that the body and blood may leave the person's body through these openings. If this isn't allowed, then you shouldn't be allowed to urinate after communion.
[quote author=davidschanter link=topic=4421.msg71950#msg71950 date=1181005365] Interesting...the women who was bleeding was allowed to touch Jesus Christ... where in the bible does it say that a woman can't have communion during menstruation.
first, during Christ times, the women was sick after many yrs and than He healed her. that also was before He manifasted His body and blood for us to get.
By the way, it is biologically wrong to say that the body and blood may leave the person's body through these openings. If this isn't allowed, then you shouldn't be allowed to urinate after communion.
hmm, very interesting. what i still don't get is this...so..every month the whole mensturation thing is going to happen, right? ...so eventually the communion blood is going to leave too...no? (professional christians...:p ..oh wow)
[quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=4421.msg72085#msg72085 date=1181174796] hmm, very interesting. what i still don't get is this...so..every month the whole mensturation thing is going to happen, right? ...so eventually the communion blood is going to leave too...no? (professional christians...:p ..oh wow)
i don't know how else to explain it.. the blood is eventually going to leave ..right?? so why can't someone take communion when it's that time?? i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
[quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=4421.msg72094#msg72094 date=1181188128] i don't know how else to explain it.. the blood is eventually going to leave ..right?? so why can't someone take communion when it's that time?? i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
if am not mistaken, the period takes about 3-5 days....maybe more...am sorry am not an expert. but it's better to be carful ya3ny.
This is a serious question, and we have the Pope's very clear view on it. At one level and in one sense that should, I guess, be it, and I for one would be very happy to accept it - indeed, whether happy or not, if it is Orthodox doctrine then it doesn't matter what I think - who cares? We're not Protestants!
In the The Apostolic Constitutions (VI, 27) it is written:
Now if any persons keep to the Jewish customs and observances concerning the natural emission and nocturnal pollutions, and the lawful conjugal acts, let them tell us whether in those hours or days, when they undergo any such thing, they observe not to pray, or to touch a Bible, or to partake of the Eucharist? And if they own it to be so, it is plain they are void of the Holy Spirit, which always continues with the faithful.
In the Didascalia (Chapter 26) it is written:
For if thou think, O woman, that in the seven days of thy flux thou art void of the Holy Spirit; if thou die in those days, thou wilt depart empty and without hope. But if the Holy Spirit is always in thee, without (just) impediment dost thou keep thyself from prayer and from the Scriptures and from the Eucharist. For consider and see, that prayer also is heard through the Holy Spirit, and the Eucharist through the Holy Spirit is accepted and sanctified, and the Scriptures are the words of the Holy Spirit, and are holy. For if the Holy Spirit is in thee, why dost thou keep thyself from approaching to the works of the Holy Spirit ?
I am genuinely puzzled here as to whether what the Pope says is in line with these Apostolic teachings, or whether it is supercedes them.
Please understand, I am not contradicting His Holiness (who could?) - simply seeking enlightenment if any one has views.
[quote author=Anglian link=topic=4421.msg73147#msg73147 date=1182618047] In the The Apostolic Constitutions (VI, 27) it is written:
Now if any persons keep to the Jewish customs and observances concerning the natural emission and nocturnal pollutions, and the lawful conjugal acts, let them tell us whether in those hours or days, when they undergo any such thing, they observe not to pray, or to touch a Bible, or to partake of the Eucharist? And if they own it to be so, it is plain they are void of the Holy Spirit, which always continues with the faithful.
In the Didascalia (Chapter 26) it is written:
For if thou think, O woman, that in the seven days of thy flux thou art void of the Holy Spirit; if thou die in those days, thou wilt depart empty and without hope. But if the Holy Spirit is always in thee, without (just) impediment dost thou keep thyself from prayer and from the Scriptures and from the Eucharist. For consider and see, that prayer also is heard through the Holy Spirit, and the Eucharist through the Holy Spirit is accepted and sanctified, and the Scriptures are the words of the Holy Spirit, and are holy. For if the Holy Spirit is in thee, why dost thou keep thyself from approaching to the works of the Holy Spirit ?
John, would you please rewrite what's above in normal english...just for my sake. i get most of it, but not as clear.thankssss
In the The Apostolic Constitutions (VI, 27) it is written:
Now if any persons keep to the Jewish customs and observances concerning the natural emission and nocturnal pollutions, and the lawful conjugal acts, let them tell us whether in those hours or days, when they undergo any such thing, they observe not to pray, or to touch a Bible, or to partake of the Eucharist? And if they own it to be so, it is plain they are void of the Holy Spirit, which always continues with the faithful
.
This means: 'Those who argue that we should stick to the Jewish customs on menstruation and emissions, do they also not pray or touch the Bible or take Communion? If they stick to the old Jewish custom then the Spirit is not in them because it always continues with the Faithful'
And this one:
In the Didascalia (Chapter 26) it is written: For if thou think, O woman, that in the seven days of thy flux thou art void of the Holy Spirit; if thou die in those days, thou wilt depart empty and without hope. But if the Holy Spirit is always in thee, without (just) impediment dost thou keep thyself from prayer and from the Scriptures and from the Eucharist. For consider and see, that prayer also is heard through the Holy Spirit, and the Eucharist through the Holy Spirit is accepted and sanctified, and the Scriptures are the words of the Holy Spirit, and are holy. For if the Holy Spirit is in thee, why dost thou keep thyself from approaching to the works of the Holy Spirit ?
'The Holy Spirit is always with you, woman, and you should therefore not stay away from prayer, the Scriptures and the Eucharist. Don't you see that your prayer is heard through the Spirit, and it is through Him that the words of Scripture and the Eucharist are made holy. So, if the Holy Spirit is always in you, why stay away from His works?'
Now what appears to be being said here is that since the Spirit is in us always, women do not need to stay away from the Eucharist during their period. But, of course, these are very ancient texts, and the teachings of the Church may have changed since those days. What I was trying to say was that it would appear that there has been, in the past, a different view taken on this question.
Of course, if the view is now that women should not take communion during that time of the month, then that is the end of the argument; but I was wondering if there is a definitive statement on this that takes into account the earlier teachings cited above.
Thanks John. but for some reason, i don't think the saeond passege specified anything about menstruation. also i don't think we fully act like the Jewish tradition because we don't look at women by being unclean but rather lookinh at the lost of blood menstruation period. if am not mistaken i think that's the main reason.
You are quite correct that we do not regard this as 'unclean', and there is a difference between physical and spiritual uncleaness, which we now make, but which the early texts I cite do not. As I say, I have no wish to question what the Pope says, just to find out if anyone here knows why things seem to have changed - or indeed if they really have.
You are quite correct that we do not regard this as 'unclean', and there is a difference between physical and spiritual uncleaness, which we now make, but which the early texts I cite do not. As I say, I have no wish to question what the Pope says, just to find out if anyone here knows why things seem to have changed - or indeed if they really have.
i will try to ask a servant that would know about the early fathors writting including the apostles writings.
I would not make a big issue of it. If the Pope says what he says, that is enough, and more, for me; but it would be helpful to know how far this is doctrine and how far practice.
Hi Y'all I suffer from Juvenile Diabetes and I have to check my blood sugar and I wear an insulin pump. I have to check my blood sugar 5 or 6 times day. On sunday and if I go to litergy any other day. I have been going twice a week because I have a big exam. I always check my sugar before I get in the can to church. But I am sinning because I have to prick my finger in order to take my blood out and check my sugar. Also, sometimes, when I have to give myself an insulin injection, blood comes out of the site that I injected myself at.
[quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=4421.msg60941#msg60941 date=1158545430] Why can't the Church commune females during thir period of menstruation?
Well someone told me because if a female enters the alter with her period, it is rong because there is supposed to be only one kind of blood shed for us, which is Christ. do u get it or did i word it differently!!??
[quote author=Noosa_1981 link=topic=4421.msg80781#msg80781 date=1199418961] Hi Y'all I suffer from Juvenile Diabetes and I have to check my blood sugar and I wear an insulin pump. I have to check my blood sugar 5 or 6 times day. On sunday and if I go to litergy any other day. I have been going twice a week because I have a big exam. I always check my sugar before I get in the can to church. But I am sinning because I have to prick my finger in order to take my blood out and check my sugar. Also, sometimes, when I have to give myself an insulin injection, blood comes out of the site that I injected myself at.
i think u should talk to ur FOC maybe he will tell u something!! Srry that is the only thing that came up into my head.
There are certain exceptions i am sure to that rule, (not the menstration but for people with diabities and such) You might want to talk to your FOC and see what he says about this because in the end he will be the one to tell you if you can take communion or not. but i'm sure if you check yourself the morning before and you have stopped bleeding before communion then it should be fine, but the day of communion, after you've taken it, you are supposed to wait 9 hours before spitting and such like that, so again you should talk to you FOC and see if he can give you an excuse or work something out so that you can partake of communion because obviously you have to check yourself to make sure you blood sugar level is alright, hope i helped,and God be with you God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness,
This is actually an extremely important topic today. So you're not asking a stupid question.
I did a lot of research this past summer in Egypt on the topic of the Body and the Church in relation to illness specifically, but also with this topic.
It is very interesting to know that ACTUALLY the tide is turning and more priests and bishops are actually becoming very indifferent to this "canon". As some of you have pointed out, this canon makes no sense physically. The Eucharist and Holy Blood DOES NOT go through our bodily functions. To say that negates the ENTIRE faith aspect of what we believe about the essential nature of Communion.
To answer this question, we also have to think about the cultural context. As someone correctly said, the Old Testament forbade menstruating women from taking part in religious activities because they were "unclean". I can go on about this but think about the difference between "technology" in sanitary between now and thousands of years ago....If we go even further, this canon could potentially be discriminatatory against groups of women. For example, if a female's periods were so bad that she had to get on birth control pills, and let's say, one like Seasonale where she would only get her period four times a year, then she'll be able to take communion significantly more often than other women who are not on birth control. Perhaps the complexities are starting to be clearer now?
I am not allowed to use any names because it was part of the confidentiality statement of my research but there are several leaders in the Church that are against this canon. Two bishops that I talked to (neither live in Western countries!) HATE this canon and feel its more than out-dated. "Nothing should prevent anyone from taking communion, especially something that we ourselves do not cause." This was in response to seeing that some of the women not taking communion--he chastised them for not taking communion for that very reason. Many other priests discussed that the Church wants to make sure that people are approaching it with respect. One priest said that unfortunately, some people take that too far. Burning up a tissue after you throw up? Not swimming 9 hours after you take communion? These are all ideas that came relatively recently because people are highly superstitious (!!!! scary word, I know). The truth is that once you have taken the glorious Eucharist and Blood, nothing will take our Lord out of you in a physical sense.
There are soooo many points on this topic but I'll leave you with one more. The canon, written by St. Dionysious should not be taken as the Word of God. Many times we think that just because something is written, we should not question it and obey it. We forget that these are human beings too. In this same canon, menstruating women cant not only take Communion, they can't take part in ANY of the sacraments, pray or read the Bible. We must question what kind of Canon this is. Scientifically the canon is flawwed and theologically it is flawwed. It's time for the Church to come up with a unified and complete response to this. I have done a lot of reading on it and have yet to read a respectable answer: most published avoid the question or give the same superficial responses some of you gave.
Sorry for the long response. It's a very complicated question and this only the surface of its answer.
This is actually an extremely important topic today. So you're not asking a stupid question................................
am not sure what was the point of this whole post you wrote, but to just answer the last part, this was explaoned by Iqbal in the 1st response to this topic.....which was:
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=4421.msg60947#msg60947 date=1158547470] His Grace Bishop Youssef says concerning this issue:
The Second Canon of St. Dionysius, the thirteenth Archbishop of Alexandria, and student of Origen who lived, in the mid-third Century states:
“Concerning menstrous women, whether they ought to enter the temple of God while in such a state, I think it superfluous even to put the question. For I opine, not even they themselves, being faithful and pious, would dare when in this state either to approach the Holy Table or to touch the body and blood of Christ.”
To support his opinion, Dionysus refers to the New Testament, “For even the woman who had the 12-year discharge and was eager for a cure touched not him but only his fringe.” And finally, rooting the purity law in ancient Jewish tradition, he explicitly conflates Christian altar space with Temple space, stating that anyone “who is not completely pure in both soul and body shall be prevented from approaching the holy and the holy of holies.”
It is important that the holiness of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ be kept within us after the Holy Communion. A person bleeding for any reason either due to a physical illness, menstruation or a cut should not partake of the Holy Communion. In such cases we consider them as non-fasting and not unclean.
As I read through the previous posts [generally], I grew increasingly alarmed at the female view points being expressed.
The two essential reasons for not being permitted to take Communion have been listed--lack of purity, and allowing the body of Christ to enter blood which is existing the body. As you all know, whatever you consume goes to your blood stream--and if your blood is outside of your body, that's not the proper place for the body and blood of Christ is it? So whether you are bleeding from a cut, feeling nauseous and about to throw up, or menstruating, you cannot partake of Communion.
I think the issue here is that no one is stressing the SANCTITY of Communion. Of course if you are menstruating, you're impure. Do you have any idea what your body is experiencing? Yes, it's biological but out of RESPECT for the BODY AND BLOOD of CHRIST, taking communion in such a state is something you do NOT want to do. No, it is not your RIGHT to take Communion without regard to your spiritual and physical condition. Communion is a privilege and we must respect it. So not only should you not take communion during menstruation, you should be AFRAID of EVER making that mistake. It's one of the worst things that a woman could ever do within a church, and the most disrespectful sin to the flesh and blood of our Savior..
So before we get technical, we have to learn our place with respect to Holy Communion.
And this is of course malleable with certain circumstances such as illnesses, etc.. in which case the priest/bishop makes the call.
CopticCross, the blood "eventually" leaves but that's sufficient time for what you consumed to be absorbed into your cells and used. You know the digestion time technicalities..matter of hours--6 to be exact. So whatever is in your blood stream when you bleed is what comes out--but if it's already been used, then it's not an issue.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=4421.msg72097#msg72097 date=1181189707] [quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=4421.msg72094#msg72094 date=1181188128] i don't know how else to explain it.. the blood is eventually going to leave ..right?? so why can't someone take communion when it's that time?? i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
if am not mistaken, the period takes about 3-5 days....maybe more...am sorry am not an expert. but it's better to be carful ya3ny.
Every woman is different. Some women only bleed for 1 maybe 2 days while others could bleed at least 7 days or more. I normally bleed 7 to 8 days. One time I bleed for 16 days. Sometime the same woman could bleed different amounts of days from month to month.
Comments
How would you burn all of that?
not all of it, only what came out that day. ill IM you with a bit more detail lol..
[quote author=vassilios link=board=1;threadid=4421;start=45#msg61914 date=1160473990]
As far as Im aware, she cannot enter nor participate the holy communion out of respect (its as if she's not fasting).
How is it as if she is not fasting if she didn't eat?
is there any evidence to support this ?
umm this is purely a guess but maybe its because our Mother St Mary left the temple at that age ?
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
My understanding was that if a woman has her period, she cannot have communion and that's because she's unclean. I don't think "unclean" spiritually... i think its unclean physically... and there's nothing unclean or dirty about ahving a period, i think when we say "unclean" - it means - it would be like me having communion when i've just finished playing a 10 hour rugby match: i'd be all sweating and sticky, i'd need a shower...
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
maybe u can read the last five pages of this topic to find ur answer.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=4421.msg71886#msg71886 date=1180952165]
My understanding was that if a woman has her period, she cannot have communion and that's because she's unclean. I don't think "unclean" spiritually... i think its unclean physically... and there's nothing unclean or dirty about ahving a period, i think when we say "unclean" - it means - it would be like me having communion when i've just finished playing a 10 hour rugby match: i'd be all sweating and sticky, i'd need a shower...
But my question is this: what if she doesnt stop bleeding??? What if her period goes on and on!???? Is it fair to prevent her from having communion!????????
maybe u can read the last five pages of this topic to find ur answer.
Mina,
Iqbal didnt give an answer yet on this topic! I'm only listening to Iqbal/John(Anglican)/Orthodox11 and HizzChild. They are professional Christians who can provide professional answers.
When they do provide an answer, feel free to give me the link.
Regards,
Mina,
Iqbal didnt give an answer yet on this topic! I'm only listening to Iqbal/John(Anglican)/Orthodox11 and HizzChild. They are professional Christians who can provide professional answers.
well great to hear you do have some one that u agree with.
just don't wait for my answer since it's not a professional Christian one.
Iqbal did reply to this:
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=4421.msg60947#msg60947 date=1158547470]
His Grace Bishop Youssef says concerning this issue:
from his book: Dogmatic Questions IV (which can be downloaded from www.copticpope.orgB
Kinda long but hey, it answers all your questions:
Is it allowed for a woman while menstruating to receive
Communion, and if not, why not? Because after all, this is
something natural which she can't help.
And if she just sits down at home, is she allowed to worship
privately, to pray and read the Bible etc.?
Answer:
At home she can worship God however she likes at this time of
the month, but if she takes Communion in church, or outside it,
this is absolutely not allowed.
A person is not permitted to receive Communion if blood is
flowing from his body, and this applies to both sexes, and it
also applies to any secretion of a sexual nature: this is clear
from the Bible.
There are many Biblical texts and many Church regulations
which confirm this point and have made it clear for people to
understand.
But someone might plead that it isn't fair on women, since
nothing comparable applies to men. For when men have wet
dreams or if any discharge comes from their bodies, they can
still enter Church and no-one is likely to prevent them, and no
rules can be enforced against them. So why should this happen
to women?
Perhaps someone might ask that there are some men who aren't
deacons but who nevertheless enter the sanctuary and take
Communion. How is that so?
In actual fact, this was only ever permitted to the king who had
been crowned in the Orthodox manner, and had been anointed
with the holy oil in view of the fact that he was the Lord's
anointed.
As for other people entering, perhaps they have another reason
for doing so which could be one of the following:
Many of the men who do this have actually been admitted to
one of the lower degrees of deacon, but might not be wearing
their proper deacon's dress at the time that they enter the
sanctuary, as they should, and this is a mistake which the
Church is trying to remedy, by forbidding all deacons from
entering the sanctuary, even those decreed to be at one of the
lower levels, but who don't happen to be serving or wearing
their tunics on that day.
But there is also another mistake which I have observed which
has been necessitated really by a professional situation which is
that some men, such as builders, engineers or decorators might
need to enter the sanctuary during the course of their work, but
this obviously wouldn't be during a service. In a similar way, it
might be necessary at times for painters, television or radio men
to enter the sanctuary.
The answer is that the most the man is permitted to do is to
enter the church after having cleansed himself bodily, but he is
not allowed to receive Communion.
There is a basic difference though between the kind of discharge
coming from the man and the woman, which is that: the man's is
incidental and temporary, whereas the woman's continues for
several days. The following point, however, would make them
both equal and that is if the man's discharge were continuous, he
would also be forbidden to take the communion in exactly the
same way.
But there remains the point that it is not the woman's fault, that
it is something natural which she can't help.
No, it's nobody's fault: there is nothing wrong in it, and noone
is being blamed but God just wants to always remind
us of the first sin of mankind.
If we are mindful of that first sin, we are more likely to value
the ransom paid out for us.
The wages of sin is death, and even though Christ died for us,
He still left us with a mark to remember this by, which is for
men, that "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food"
and for women, that "with pain you will give birth to children.
" (Gen. 3:19,18)
In the case of pregnancy, the woman's menstruation stops, and
she is reminded of Eve's original sin by the pains of pregnancy,
birth and delivery, and outside the period of pregnancy she
recalls her sin at the time of menstruation and this makes her
realise how much her sins forbid her from receiving holy
blessings, not only those which are associated with Communion
and the Church.
Men, on the other hand, are reminded of their first sin because
they are supposed to labour throughout their lives on account of
earning their daily bread. The remembrance of this is the aim,
though the means might vary enormously.
It would be better for us to try and derive spiritual benefit from
thinking more deeply about the meaning of these things rather
than complaining about them.
where in the bible does it say that a woman can't have communion during menstruation.
By the way, it is biologically wrong to say that the body and blood may leave the person's body through these openings. If this isn't allowed, then you shouldn't be allowed to urinate after communion.
Interesting...the women who was bleeding was allowed to touch Jesus Christ...
where in the bible does it say that a woman can't have communion during menstruation.
first, during Christ times, the women was sick after many yrs and than He healed her. that also was before He manifasted His body and blood for us to get. urine is not blood.
what i still don't get is this...so..every month the whole mensturation thing is going to happen, right? ...so eventually the communion blood is going to leave too...no?
(professional christians...:p ..oh wow)
hmm, very interesting.
what i still don't get is this...so..every month the whole mensturation thing is going to happen, right? ...so eventually the communion blood is going to leave too...no?
(professional christians...:p ..oh wow)
i don't understand???
the blood is eventually going to leave ..right??
so why can't someone take communion when it's that time??
i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
Fibo
i don't know how else to explain it..
the blood is eventually going to leave ..right??
so why can't someone take communion when it's that time??
i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
if am not mistaken, the period takes about 3-5 days....maybe more...am sorry am not an expert. but it's better to be carful ya3ny.
In the The Apostolic Constitutions (VI, 27) it is written: In the Didascalia (Chapter 26) it is written: I am genuinely puzzled here as to whether what the Pope says is in line with these Apostolic teachings, or whether it is supercedes them.
Please understand, I am not contradicting His Holiness (who could?) - simply seeking enlightenment if any one has views.
In Christ,
Anglian
In the The Apostolic Constitutions (VI, 27) it is written: In the Didascalia (Chapter 26) it is written:
John, would you please rewrite what's above in normal english...just for my sake.
i get most of it, but not as clear.thankssss
or an arabic version
Sure, here goes:
but for some reason, i don't think the saeond passege specified anything about menstruation. also i don't think we fully act like the Jewish tradition because we don't look at women by being unclean but rather lookinh at the lost of blood menstruation period.
if am not mistaken i think that's the main reason.
In the second one that is what 'flux' means.
You are quite correct that we do not regard this as 'unclean', and there is a difference between physical and spiritual uncleaness, which we now make, but which the early texts I cite do not. As I say, I have no wish to question what the Pope says, just to find out if anyone here knows why things seem to have changed - or indeed if they really have.
In Christ,
John
Dear Mina,
In the second one that is what 'flux' means.
You are quite correct that we do not regard this as 'unclean', and there is a difference between physical and spiritual uncleaness, which we now make, but which the early texts I cite do not. As I say, I have no wish to question what the Pope says, just to find out if anyone here knows why things seem to have changed - or indeed if they really have.
i will try to ask a servant that would know about the early fathors writting including the apostles writings.
Thank you.
I would not make a big issue of it. If the Pope says what he says, that is enough, and more, for me; but it would be helpful to know how far this is doctrine and how far practice.
In Christ,
John
I suffer from Juvenile Diabetes and I have to check my blood sugar and I wear an insulin pump. I have to check my blood sugar 5 or 6 times day. On sunday and if I go to litergy any other day. I have been going twice a week because I have a big exam. I always check my sugar before I get in the can to church. But I am sinning because I have to prick my finger in order to take my blood out and check my sugar. Also, sometimes, when I have to give myself an insulin injection, blood comes out of the site that I injected myself at.
Why can't the Church commune females during thir period of menstruation?
Well someone told me because if a female enters the alter with her period, it is rong because there is supposed to be only one kind of blood shed for us, which is Christ. do u get it or did i word it differently!!??
Hi Y'all
I suffer from Juvenile Diabetes and I have to check my blood sugar and I wear an insulin pump. I have to check my blood sugar 5 or 6 times day. On sunday and if I go to litergy any other day. I have been going twice a week because I have a big exam. I always check my sugar before I get in the can to church. But I am sinning because I have to prick my finger in order to take my blood out and check my sugar. Also, sometimes, when I have to give myself an insulin injection, blood comes out of the site that I injected myself at.
i think u should talk to ur FOC maybe he will tell u something!! Srry that is the only thing that came up into my head.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness,
This is actually an extremely important topic today. So you're not asking a stupid question.
I did a lot of research this past summer in Egypt on the topic of the Body and the Church in relation to illness specifically, but also with this topic.
It is very interesting to know that ACTUALLY the tide is turning and more priests and bishops are actually becoming very indifferent to this "canon". As some of you have pointed out, this canon makes no sense physically. The Eucharist and Holy Blood DOES NOT go through our bodily functions. To say that negates the ENTIRE faith aspect of what we believe about the essential nature of Communion.
To answer this question, we also have to think about the cultural context. As someone correctly said, the Old Testament forbade menstruating women from taking part in religious activities because they were "unclean". I can go on about this but think about the difference between "technology" in sanitary between now and thousands of years ago....If we go even further, this canon could potentially be discriminatatory against groups of women. For example, if a female's periods were so bad that she had to get on birth control pills, and let's say, one like Seasonale where she would only get her period four times a year, then she'll be able to take communion significantly more often than other women who are not on birth control. Perhaps the complexities are starting to be clearer now?
I am not allowed to use any names because it was part of the confidentiality statement of my research but there are several leaders in the Church that are against this canon. Two bishops that I talked to (neither live in Western countries!) HATE this canon and feel its more than out-dated. "Nothing should prevent anyone from taking communion, especially something that we ourselves do not cause." This was in response to seeing that some of the women not taking communion--he chastised them for not taking communion for that very reason. Many other priests discussed that the Church wants to make sure that people are approaching it with respect. One priest said that unfortunately, some people take that too far. Burning up a tissue after you throw up? Not swimming 9 hours after you take communion? These are all ideas that came relatively recently because people are highly superstitious (!!!! scary word, I know). The truth is that once you have taken the glorious Eucharist and Blood, nothing will take our Lord out of you in a physical sense.
There are soooo many points on this topic but I'll leave you with one more. The canon, written by St. Dionysious should not be taken as the Word of God. Many times we think that just because something is written, we should not question it and obey it. We forget that these are human beings too. In this same canon, menstruating women cant not only take Communion, they can't take part in ANY of the sacraments, pray or read the Bible. We must question what kind of Canon this is. Scientifically the canon is flawwed and theologically it is flawwed. It's time for the Church to come up with a unified and complete response to this. I have done a lot of reading on it and have yet to read a respectable answer: most published avoid the question or give the same superficial responses some of you gave.
Sorry for the long response. It's a very complicated question and this only the surface of its answer.
Blessings.
This is actually an extremely important topic today. So you're not asking a stupid question................................
am not sure what was the point of this whole post you wrote, but to just answer the last part, this was explaoned by Iqbal in the 1st response to this topic.....which was:
[quote author=Iqbal link=topic=4421.msg60947#msg60947 date=1158547470]
His Grace Bishop Youssef says concerning this issue:
The two essential reasons for not being permitted to take Communion have been listed--lack of purity, and allowing the body of Christ to enter blood which is existing the body. As you all know, whatever you consume goes to your blood stream--and if your blood is outside of your body, that's not the proper place for the body and blood of Christ is it? So whether you are bleeding from a cut, feeling nauseous and about to throw up, or menstruating, you cannot partake of Communion.
I think the issue here is that no one is stressing the SANCTITY of Communion. Of course if you are menstruating, you're impure. Do you have any idea what your body is experiencing? Yes, it's biological but out of RESPECT for the BODY AND BLOOD of CHRIST, taking communion in such a state is something you do NOT want to do. No, it is not your RIGHT to take Communion without regard to your spiritual and physical condition. Communion is a privilege and we must respect it. So not only should you not take communion during menstruation, you should be AFRAID of EVER making that mistake. It's one of the worst things that a woman could ever do within a church, and the most disrespectful sin to the flesh and blood of our Savior..
So before we get technical, we have to learn our place with respect to Holy Communion.
And this is of course malleable with certain circumstances such as illnesses, etc.. in which case the priest/bishop makes the call.
CopticCross, the blood "eventually" leaves but that's sufficient time for what you consumed to be absorbed into your cells and used. You know the digestion time technicalities..matter of hours--6 to be exact. So whatever is in your blood stream when you bleed is what comes out--but if it's already been used, then it's not an issue.
God bless.
[quote author=copticcross3 link=topic=4421.msg72094#msg72094 date=1181188128]
i don't know how else to explain it..
the blood is eventually going to leave ..right??
so why can't someone take communion when it's that time??
i mean, say they take communion a week before, its going to end up leavingthe body. idk, that's the best i can explain what i'm thinking.
if am not mistaken, the period takes about 3-5 days....maybe more...am sorry am not an expert. but it's better to be carful ya3ny.
Every woman is different. Some women only bleed for 1 maybe 2 days while others could bleed at least 7 days or more. I normally bleed 7 to 8 days. One time I bleed for 16 days. Sometime the same woman could bleed different amounts of days from month to month.