Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Prayer question...
I have a little problem... I tend to forget quickly what people ask me to do and that includes the people that ask me to pray for them!!
any recommendations on how to resolve this problem?
I don't like having to write down a list of people on a piece of paper and read from it when I'm talking with God... I feel like when I'm praying all should come from the heart and not from a sheet of paper!!
any recommendations on how to resolve this problem?
I don't like having to write down a list of people on a piece of paper and read from it when I'm talking with God... I feel like when I'm praying all should come from the heart and not from a sheet of paper!!
Comments
1) write the list and lay it before you while praying but dont read off it
2) pray for the population in general, may the Lord support those during their exam period for example
I feel like when I'm praying all should come from the heart and not from a sheet of paper!!
yeah your totally right
I disagree with that statement :"all prayer should come from your heart, not from a piece of paper".
If that was the case, why then did Our Lord tell us: "When you pray, say the following:... Our Father .." Why didnt He tell us to "pray from your heart".
Yes, we can say "Our Father" from our hearts. But, the problem is this: your heart was the cause of the sin, and now u wish to pray from it? Why not pray from the Agpeya? The repentance and praise of David? This was all inspired by the Holy Spirit. Its also a sign of humility that we use the words of David's repentance as our own.
Pray from the agpeya (the Psalams) until the words of the agpeya become your own.
Does that make sense? A priest told me that... after many many years, i discovered he was right.
after reading the agpeya almost every night, you begin to memorise the prayers and can thus incoporate that into your own prayer.
what AnbaBola was talking about was reading people's names off a peice of paper which is not necessary.
Why didnt He tell us to "pray from your heart".Yes, we can say "Our Father" from our hearts. But, the problem is this: your heart was the cause of the sin, and now u wish to pray from it?
so your telling me the heart is full of sin and is not capable of expressing words that truly demonstrate how genuine you are and how remorseful you are for the sins you have committed. through prayer we ask fro repentance and it is expected that you pray from your heart
im not denying the importance nor the benefit of reading from the agpeya in fact i encourage my kids to read their agpeya and then their bible and then spend some time with God speaking in your own words.
after reading the agpeya almost every night, you begin to memorise the prayers and can thus incoporate that into your own prayer.
what AnbaBola was talking about was reading people's names off a peice of paper which is not necessary.
Why didnt He tell us to "pray from your heart".Yes, we can say "Our Father" from our hearts. But, the problem is this: your heart was the cause of the sin, and now u wish to pray from it?
so your telling me the heart is full of sin and is not capable of expressing words that truly demonstrate how genuine you are and how remorseful you are for the sins you have committed. through prayer we ask fro repentance and it is expected that you pray from your heart
Oh ok, i still don't get what's wrong with reading names then off of a piece of paper? So, u prefer to forget the names and just pray from your heart? OK.. no problem.
Concerning the topic (side topic) of praying from your heart, im saying that its best to pray from the agpeya until the words of the agpeya become your own.
A priest even told me: its best to pray from the agpeya even if u don't feel any connection with the words, than to just pray from your own heart. I was so offended by this.
I went to a priest and asked him: "Father, why do we pray from the agpeya? Why can't we just pray from our own hearts? I feel im praying from the words of someone else, and i have nothing in common with him or his life".
He said "Vassilios, why do u wish to pray from your heart for? Its full of sin". I was soo offended also he said that, but its true. After many years, looking back, it would have been better to have prayed from the words of King David than to just pray from my heart. The words he prayed were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
There is nothing wrong with praying from your heart, but as an orthodox website, i was hoping to present the point of view of the orthodox priests. TWO priests told me that. Many many more believe the same thing. Pray from your heart, but its better to pray from the agpeya.
Oh ok, i still don't get what's wrong with reading names then off of a piece of paper? So, u prefer to forget the names and just pray from your heart? OK.. no problem.
no i didnt say to forget people's names that is why i suggested that you write the names on a piece of paper and lay it before you while your praying and make reference to it through your prayer. ANYWAYS, we are all unique and have personal preferences when praying,we dont all pray the same. i personally would find it distracting to be reading off a piece of paper while in prayer. other people SUCH AS URSELF would think otherwise, OK thats fine, good for you, do as you please
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64085 date=1164846109]
Concerning the topic (side topic) of praying from your heart, im saying that its best to pray from the agpeya until the words of the agpeya become your own.
A priest even told me: its best to pray from the agpeya even if u don't feel any connection with the words, than to just pray from your own heart. I was so offended by this.
pray from an agpeya even if you dont feel the connection??? the Lord wants to hear us talking to him and spilling the beans about what's been happening in our lives, ask and it shall be given unto you, Seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door shall be opened unto you.
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64085 date=1164846109]
I went to a priest and asked him: "Father, why do we pray from the agpeya? Why can't we just pray from our own hearts? I feel im praying from the words of someone else, and i have nothing in common with him or his life".
He said "Vassilios, why do u wish to pray from your heart for? Its full of sin". I was soo offended also he said that, but its true. After many years, looking back, it would have been better to have prayed from the words of King David than to just pray from my heart. The words he prayed were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
There is nothing wrong with praying from your heart, but as an orthodox website, i was hoping to present the point of view of the orthodox priests. TWO priests told me that. Many many more believe the same thing. Pray from your heart, but its better to pray from the agpeya.
did i EVER deny or state that reading from the agpeya was wrong? no i didnt, i simply suggested that we do both, pray from agpeya and say a few words of our own words
i commend you for supporting your argument with valid points and will unwillingly admit, that you have a point in regards to the heart containing sin but that shouldnt be the only reason why we pray from the agpeya
+FROG+
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64085 date=1164846109]
Oh ok, i still don't get what's wrong with reading names then off of a piece of paper? So, u prefer to forget the names and just pray from your heart? OK.. no problem.
no i didnt say to forget people's names that is why i suggested that you write the names on a piece of paper and lay it before you while your praying and make reference to it through your prayer. ANYWAYS, we are all unique and have personal preferences when praying,we dont all pray the same. i personally would find it distracting to be reading off a piece of paper while in prayer. other people SUCH AS URSELF would think otherwise, OK thats fine, good for you, do as you please
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64085 date=1164846109]
Concerning the topic (side topic) of praying from your heart, im saying that its best to pray from the agpeya until the words of the agpeya become your own.
A priest even told me: its best to pray from the agpeya even if u don't feel any connection with the words, than to just pray from your own heart. I was so offended by this.
pray from an agpeya even if you dont feel the connection??? the Lord wants to hear us talking to him and spilling the beans about what's been happening in our lives, ask and it shall be given unto you, Seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door shall be opened unto you.
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64085 date=1164846109]
I went to a priest and asked him: "Father, why do we pray from the agpeya? Why can't we just pray from our own hearts? I feel im praying from the words of someone else, and i have nothing in common with him or his life".
He said "Vassilios, why do u wish to pray from your heart for? Its full of sin". I was soo offended also he said that, but its true. After many years, looking back, it would have been better to have prayed from the words of King David than to just pray from my heart. The words he prayed were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
There is nothing wrong with praying from your heart, but as an orthodox website, i was hoping to present the point of view of the orthodox priests. TWO priests told me that. Many many more believe the same thing. Pray from your heart, but its better to pray from the agpeya.
did i EVER deny or state that reading from the agpeya was wrong? no i didnt, i simply suggested that we do both, pray from agpeya and say a few words of our own words
i commend you for supporting your argument with valid points and will unwillingly admit, that you have a point in regards to the heart containing sin but that shouldnt be the only reason why we pray from the agpeya
Catch, i agree with u. I know EXACTLY where u r coming from. I thought it odd too to read and pray from a book where i found no connection with. But then - look at it this way:
If the Lord commanded us to say :"Our Father, who art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done... etc.. "
Then, how can we truly say :
"Forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us?"
How can we say that if we don't mean it?? or even live it?? its HARD to forgive actually.
How can Christ Himself ask us to pray from words that don't come from us???
You see?? So, if Christ wishes us to pray to him saying the above forementioned prayer :"Our Father..." , then no doubt he PREFERS us to pray that than anything else we wanted to say ourselves. And if you feel no connection with ANY of the words in "Our Father", then what is the answer?? Let's not pray the "Our Father Prayer" and just pray from our hearts instead? Let's skip the part of "Forgive us our tresspasses" because i personally don't particularly feel like forgiving anyone today??
THe answer is this. if God asked you to pray the "Our Father" prayer, and you feel no connection with the words, then the only answer is to read the words and pray that you do feel a connection with them to the extent that they become your own words.
Is this making any sense???
for example, here is what i'll say "ya rab, please help:
ahmed, mahmad, mona, salaman, mina, nader, mahmoud,.... in their exams because they really need your help and you are the only one to help them, etc..."
by the 5th name, i'll be just reading names and loosing all of my connection with god that i made in the beginning when i started praying... now i'm not saying its everyone... its ONLY ME!!!
that's why i was seeking help and advice from you guys on what you do...
*** those names i made up :P
thanx...
Catch, i agree with u. I know EXACTLY where u r coming from.
wow thats a first
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64157 date=1164932789]
If the Lord commanded us to say :"Our Father, who art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done... etc.. "
Then, how can we truly say :
"Forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us?"
How can we say that if we don't mean it?? or even live it?? its HARD to forgive actually.
How can Christ Himself ask us to pray from words that don't come from us???
what do you mean if the lord commanded us to say our father heaven? we are taught to say this from a very young age,
true it is extremely hard to forgive especially to forget someone people's actions, but its not impossible
so then what's the purpose of the Lord's prayer if we dont mean it?
[quote author=vassilios link=board=10;threadid=4697;start=0#msg64157 date=1164932789]
THe answer is this. if God asked you to pray the "Our Father" prayer, and you feel no connection with the words, then the only answer is to read the words and pray that you do feel a connection with them to the extent that they become your own words.
AGREED
BTW:AnbaBola no need to feel as though it is your fault, im actually learning from this discussion believe it or not
We are taught to say "Our Father" prayer from a very tender age, but we shouldnt progress into someone that neglects this prayer to supersede it with prayer from our hearts, because we are older now. Rather, we should focus on this prayer, and learn to pray it until i come to terms with every single sentence in that prayer.
I'm exactly the same. I was taught it at a very young age, and yet, i feel like i have to re-teach myself this prayer again until i realise that this is what God wants to hear from me - FROM MY OWN words. That means, He wants me to pray the "Our Father " Prayer, yet coming from my own heart, not as a routine....
The same with the Agpeya... what needs to happen to you, or to anyone to make them feel connected with the words in the Psalms??? To drive them to say :"Have mercy upon me O Lord according to the multitude of your mercy". When this verse comes from your own heart, then great...
But i think time to yourself is important to actually meditate on your life to actually see : a) Why is it the Church wants you to pray from the Agpeya (the Agpeya is basically the Psalms and the bible readings), and b) how somehow, the words of David in his psalms, in his repentance, are now "your words".
I remmeber a woman said to a Bishop: "I don't understand why i have to pray in the agpeya and say "amongst whom i'm the first" When Saint paul was talking about himself. I personally don't feel im the "worst" sinner in the world?!!"
So the bishop responded and said: "Well.. He was comparing himself to Jesus Christ".
we had a guest speaker at our youth meeting once who discussed the Lord's prayer line by line and explained the possible meanings which was really good.
so overall your telling me that it takes time for the prayers in the agpeya and the Lord's prayer to sink in and come from the heart?? but just to complicate things, im gonna say our hearts will always consist of sin, so will we ever be able to pray from the heart?
You shouldnt be praying like in a habit without concentrating on what you are saying
(i do that sometimes LOL)
You should concentrate on what ur saying and pray
You should also forgive other ppl's sins to accept god's forgiveness
God Bless