haram to have a christmas tree?related to pagan stuff??

mikeforjesus

related to pagan stuff??

joyisgod

His Grace Bishop Youssef's opinion on this matter:

Is it true that Christmas trees and Christmas decorations are derived from a pagan holiday? Is it sinful to celebrate Christmas with a tree and decorations?

His Grace's response:

The Christmas tree is not a pagan tradition and the Holy Book of Jeremiah 10 was definitely not talking about a Christmas tree but rather about cutting down a tree to make into wooden idols for worship. However, I would like to note that although having a Christmas tree is not considered a sin, it does not at the same time edify God. Christmas tree, decorations, Santa Claus, exchanging gifts are all worldly things that deviate our full attention from the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the real reason for the celebration. Unfortunately, these other things are now considered by many to be the main core of the celebration. Today the Christmas tree occupies a clear space in every home and even in some churches, whilst the Nativity scene, if present, is just in a small corner. I pray that, as we prepare ourselves for the Incarnation and the Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, that we receive Him in our hearts and have Him as the center of our attention and life in these holy days.

Basically there is nothing wrong with having a Christmas tree, nor is it a sin. As long as we don’t get to caught up in such traditions at the expense of our focus and attention on the Incarnation of God the Word. If you concentrate on the Christmas tree, presents, decorations, and associate Christmas with materialistic objects then that is when you have sinned.

In His Name

mikeforjesus

thanks for your reply but still I think the christmas tree may have pagan origin(s)

Coptic-Irini

It has indeed an origin which isn't christian. But it certainly isn't 'haram' to have one, our church always has one (or more), and we also decorate our sundayschoolclasses. If it would be wrong, abouna would have said it min zamaaaan.

GB

Coptic-Irini

???

whats with the *** ?? I used the word properly... i actually didnt even use it... it was in another word :-\

ma3alena...

looppool

whats with the *** ?? I used the word properly... i actually didnt even use it... it was in another word

they take the letters @ $ $ and change it to *** automatically...

Unknown

Although the Christmas tree is not Christian in origin as such, it took on a uniquely Christian symbolism when it was first incorporated into the feast of Christ's nativity. Sadly, this is no longer the case.

The tree symbolised the root of Jesse, and on it people used to hang images of the ancestors of Christ according to the flesh.

In this way, the tree attested to the coming of Christ into the world, which is the very thing we celebrate at Christmas.


The exchanging of gifts is a commemoration of the gifts brought to the Lord by the three Magi; though sadly this tradition has been absorbed by sensless consumerism and lost its original meaning.


Santa Claus is, of course, the great Saint Nicholas who defended the faith at the first Ecumenical Council of Nicea. Obviously Saint Nicholas didn't have flying reindeer :P - that was brought in from ancient Scandinavian shamanistic practices.


So there is nothing inherently wrong with any of these things, although, as joyisgod said, we must be careful not to let them distract our attention away from the true meaning of the Feast. Instead, if we return to their initial meanings, they should direct our minds and hearts towards the birth of Christ.

msaad

Sorry to deviate off topic for 1 moment - but the 3 letters mentioned above that are starred out as in Sunday School Cl*** -

The filters are very simple so it doesn't know the difference between Cl*** and the 3 letter word by itself...

One person used the "word" in a derogatory manner and such it was subject to filtering...

Please accept my apologies for deviating from the topic - please continue.. :-)

mikeforjesus

Would it be okay to have flying raindeers (?) too?

even though it (?) may have an evil origin?

filobateer

evil eh ya 3am!! eh el khorafat wel khayalat ely entah 3ayesh feehom dool??!! stop having those doubts of yours about simple, fun holiday images like santa, reindeers, etc. by turning them into these evil, pagan, forbidden things!! dah entah 3o2dah!! even if some traditions have a bit of pagan background in it, aren't you mature enough to get over it and give it your own, better meaning? w'howa ya3ny el qolqas ely benakloh fee 3eid el Ghitas kan metwasah 3aleih fel Engeel?? eshme3nah ya3ny deh ely masa2altehash??

Coptic-Irini

lol Thanks Maged...

Btw, did you know that Santa Claus was made up by Coca Cola? It's true, the were looking for something new for their campaign, so they took St. Nicholas, who's feast still is celebrated for example in Holland and Belgium, and they Americanised him and made up a story around him.

I just found that out lol, and I didn't know, so that's why I'm sharing it :)

looppool

so santa is not real???

only kidding...

i agree with u filobateer...

Hailemikael

Also, go here to learn more about the origins of Santa Claus and many things about St. Nicholas.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=35

hope this helps~! :)

I doubt he was made up by the Coca Cola company though.
:P

Hailemikael

Another interesting writing:-

Origins of the Legend

The historical Saint Nicholas was venerated in early Christian legend for saving storm-tossed sailors, defending young children, and giving generous gifts to the poor. Although many of the stories about Saint Nicholas are of doubtful authenticity (for example, he is said to have delivered a bag of gold to a poor family by tossing it through a window), his legend spread throughout Europe, emphasizing his role as a traditional bringer of gifts. The Christian figure of Saint Nicholas replaced or incorporated various pagan gift-giving figures such as the Roman Befana and the Germanic Berchta and Knecht Ruprecht. The saint was called Sankt Nikolaus in Germany and Sanct Herr Nicholaas or Sinter Klaas in Holland. In these countries Nicholas was sometimes said to ride through the sky on a horse. He was depicted wearing a bishop's robes and was said to be accompanied at times by Black Peter, an elf whose job was to whip the naughty children.

The feast day of Nicholas, when presents were received, was traditionally observed on December 6. After the Reformation, German Protestants encouraged veneration of the Christkindl (Christ child) as a gift giver on his own feast day, December 25. When the Nicholas tradition prevailed, it became attached to Christmas itself. Because the saint's life is so unreliably documented, Pope Paul VI ordered the feast of Saint Nicholas dropped from the official Roman Catholic calendar in 1969. The term Christkindl evolved to Kriss Kringle, another nickname for Santa Claus. Various other European Christmas gift givers were more or less similar to Saint Nicholas: Père Noël in France, Julenisse in Scandinavia, and Father Christmas in England.

AMERICAN ORIGINS

The American version of the Santa Claus figure received its inspiration and its name from the Dutch legend of Sinter Klaas, brought by settlers to New York in the 17th century. As early as 1773 the name appeared in the American press as “St. A Claus,” but it was the popular author Washington Irving who gave Americans their first detailed information about the Dutch version of Saint Nicholas. In his History of New York, published in 1809 under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker, Irving described the arrival of the saint on horseback (unaccompanied by Black Peter) each Eve of Saint Nicholas. This Dutch-American Saint Nick achieved his fully Americanized form in 1823 in the poem A Visit From Saint Nicholas—more commonly known as The Night Before Christmas—by writer Clement Clarke Moore. Moore included such details as the names of the reindeer; Santa Claus's laughs, winks, and nods; and the method by which Saint Nicholas, referred to as an elf, returns up the chimney. (Moore's phrase “lays his finger aside of his nose” was drawn directly from Irving's 1809 description.)

The American image of Santa Claus was further elaborated by illustrator Thomas Nast, who depicted a rotund Santa for Christmas issues of Harper's magazine from the 1860s to the 1880s. Nast added such details as Santa's workshop at the North Pole and Santa's list of the good and bad children of the world. A human-sized version of Santa Claus, rather than the elf of Moore's poem, was depicted in a series of illustrations for Coca-Cola advertisements introduced in 1931. In modern versions of the Santa Claus legend, only his toy-shop workers are elves. Rudolph, the ninth reindeer, with a red and shiny nose, was invented in 1939 by an advertising writer for the Montgomery Ward Company.

Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Coptic-Irini

I doubt he was made up by the Coca Cola company though.

It's what I heard lol

kokiie

yeah I heard the coca cola thing too

Hailemikael

Coptic-Irini and Hizz_chilld, well not all the things u hear are true.

You can simply do a little research of your own to find out. Just google it out. :D Also, check out the link I posted above and you can see it wasn't the Coca cola company. ;)

matt88

[quote author=Hailemikael link=board=1;threadid=4765;start=15#msg65235 date=1166673353]
Coptic-Irini and Hizz_chilld, well not all the things u hear are true.

You can simply do a little research of your own to find out. Just google it out. :D Also, check out the link I posted above and you can see it wasn't the Coca cola company. ;)


Yeah, Hailemikael is totally right!! Santa was invented by Coca Cola.

lol, its a fact, that as he said you can research yourself.

Ma salaama,

Matt

Hailemikael

matt88, lol I said he wasn't invented by Coca cola.

what you said above is the opposite. ;D

Mari_R

Actually, while it is an urban myth that Coka Cola "invented" Santa Claus, they did invent and popularize the modern dipiction of him as an old man in a white beard and a red suit, etc. It was actually based on a similar image of the German Chris Kringle, except he was a midget. I'll take a look to see if I can find the exact website where I found this. I also recently saw a book at my local library about the origins of Santa, which seemed to imply many different influences, which seems to be at the root of some people's confusion (including my own!)

Regarding the Christmas tree, according to Rick Steves' European Christmas (has anyone seen that?), the Christmas tree does indeed have pagan roots (pun unintentional), but the evergreen tree has come to represent the promise of everlasting life.