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The Nature of God

mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
edited February 2007 in Faith Issues
Someone who was talking to me believes Jesus is God the Father ? what would you say about that...?

I thought Jesus is not God the Father but the Son but then I thought about how Jesus is One with Father.. He said "I and My Father are One"
so you can't seperate them right?... but can you say Jesus is God the Father?

Jesus said He who had seen Him had seen the Father

I though the Son was the mind of God, the Father the being of God and the Holy Spirit the life of God... is that true?

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=mikeforjesus link=board=1;threadid=4975;start=0#msg67287 date=1170939429]
    believes Jesus is God the Father ? what would you say about that...?

    I thought Jesus is not God the Father but the Son but then I thought about how Jesus is One with Father.. He said "I and My Father are One"
    so you can't seperate them right?... but can you say Jesus is God the Father?

    Jesus said He who had seen Him had seen the Father

    I though the Son was the mind of God, the Father the being of God and the Holy Spirit the life of God... is that true?


    They are one God but they are diffrent hypostasis.

    i have said in another topic:

    "the holy trinity is like a tree. the tree have 3 parts. the roots, the top of the tree that you see, and the joice that is transfered from the roots to the top of the tree to the leaves and the fruits to keep it going.

    the root of the tree is God the Father which is hidden from everyone like the roots not shown.
    the the rest of the tree is the Son of God, our Lord jesus Christ. The Incarnated Word of God that resambles the Father. like the normal body of the tree resambles the roots.
    The joice that keep the roots and the tree conected is the Holy Spirit .

    also a continuation to that is how the fruits and the leaves part of the tree and how they are grown by the help of the joice that is send from the root. it resambles us as parts of Jesus Christ and the joice, the Holy Spirit, that proceds from the Father, narishes us to live by, in, and with Him who is above.

    * This was explained by Hegumen Fr. Abraam Sleman of St. Mark's Jersey City.     "

    may be this would help understand and respond to who ever asked you. also there is a lot of other examples that simpolize the Trinity
  • Unknown

    believes Jesus is God the Father ? what would you say about that...?

    It's a heresy known as Sabellianism or Modalism. The one you were talking to was probably a Oneness Pentecostal.

    Mike, I'm not sure what you're doing talking to people like this in the current state you're in. One struggling with his faith does not add fuel to the fire in such manner.

    I thought Jesus is not God the Father but the Son but then I thought about how Jesus is One with Father.. He said "I and My Father are One"

    The Father and the Son are One in essence. They share common Being and Nature yet they are distinct Hypostaseis.

    Jesus said He who had seen Him had seen the Father

    Because He is the Revelation of the Father; He is the Image of the Father. He is certainly not the Father, however. The very fact there exists a distinction in name i.e. Father and Son, implies this, as does the fact there was evidently a relationship between Father and Son--a relationship can only exist between 2 or more persons.
  • mikeforjesusmikeforjesus
    the person I was talking to was a close relative.. he is coptic orthodox
    he just seems to be confused..

    however when you say the Father and Son are two persons... I will not agree with you if you believe they are two different beings..
    I thought the Son is the mind of God and the Father the being of God.
  • Anglican
    Dear Mike,

    If you have another look at what Iqbal wrote you'll see he isn't saying that the Father and the Son are two different beings - that would be heresy.

    St. Cyril of Alexandria, in his Commentary on St. John offers a number of ways of explaining this. The one I find most useful is this:

    Believing in God the Father, in His Only-Begotten Son, and in the Holy Ghost we are justified. Wherefore the Saviour Himself too enjoins His own Disciples saying Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. If then the difference of the Names is to contribute nothing to our conception, but when one says the Father, he means the Son, and in naming the Son makes mention of the Father, what need was there of bidding that the believers should be baptized not into Unity but into Trinity? But since the tale of the Divine Nature runs forth into the number three, it is I suppose wholly manifest to all that Each of those so numbered exists in His Own Person, but by reason of there being no change in the Nature, It arrives at One Godhead and has the same worship.

    Hope that is helpful.

    In Christ,

    John
  • Unknown
    [quote author=Iqbal link=topic=4975.msg67411#msg67411 date=1171142561]

    believes Jesus is God the Father ? what would you say about that...?

    It's a heresy known as Sabellianism or Modalism. The one you were talking to was probably a Oneness Pentecostal.

    Mike, I'm not sure what you're doing talking to people like this in the current state you're in. One struggling with his faith does not add fuel to the fire in such manner.

    I thought Jesus is not God the Father but the Son but then I thought about how Jesus is One with Father.. He said "I and My Father are One"

    The Father and the Son are One in essence. They share common Being and Nature yet they are distinct Hypostaseis.

    Jesus said He who had seen Him had seen the Father

    Because He is the Revelation of the Father; He is the Image of the Father. He is certainly not the Father, however. The very fact there exists a distinction in name i.e. Father and Son, implies this, as does the fact there was evidently a relationship between Father and Son--a relationship can only exist between 2 or more persons.


    Iqbal is right. And he is not saying that there is two gods but one, each one has it's own work that is all. 
  • meghalo05meghalo05
    In agreement with Iqbal, Sabellianism or the belief that Jesus Christ is God the Father is definitely a huge heresy as it was condemned at the Council of Constantinople which condemned also Macedonius, and Apollinarius who said Christ's will and soul were divided one for his Divinity and the other his humanity, not one in essence.  HG Bishop Angaelos has a sermon in which he describes Who God is? I believe it is available on orthodoxbookstore.org. In this CD His Grace goes into detail on who God is? God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. 

    The reason Sabellianism is a heresy because if one claims that God the father is God the Son, how can God die? But when we claim they are 2 separate entities in one Godhead, we see that Christ who is full God and also full man in the same instance is capable of death because he is human, and he is able to rise from the dead because he is God.  When our Lord referred that he and his Father are one he was referring that they were equal and of the same substance.  This is why in the Divine Liturgy we say Con-substantial with the father (of the same substance or Divinity).  If we claim that Christ is God the father we take away from his humanity, and thus the heresy becomes that of Eutyches who claimed that his Divinity absorbed his humanity. Christ is not God the Father, nor God the Holy Spirit yet he is equal to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. (Think of an equalateral triangle! Anba Mousa loves this analogy!) He is separate and possesses one nature of two (divinity and humanity) and thus he is truly the Incarnate God Logos. Wonderful topic, pardon my rambling!

    Blessed Lent,
    Abe
  • person55person55
    over the summer i was in a program run by an abouna in my church and this topic is one we spent a long time discussing. abouna told about the term "homo-ousious" which means one essence. he also said something about the nature of God that really cleared up a lot of confusion:
              "one in what they are, three in who they are" (referring to the Holy Trinity)

    hope it helped
    God bless
  • Pro@stmarkPro@stmark
    [quote author=person55 link=topic=4975.msg67519#msg67519 date=1171406583]
    over the summer i was in a program run by an abouna in my church and this topic is one we spent a long time discussing. abouna told about the term "homo-ousious" which means one essence. he also said something about the nature of God that really cleared up a lot of confusion:
              "one in what they are, three in who they are" (referring to the Holy Trinity)

    hope it helped
    God bless

    I think you're talking about what happened in the council of Nisia, where Aries, a heretic, was excommunicated from Christianity because of his heresy.
    The term he used to describe Christ nature was  omo-esios  which means that Jesus’ nature is made of a substance that is like God the Father. So not the same nature but something like it.
    The term that Bishops decided to use the one you have above, Omo-oseios, which means from the same exact nature of the Father.
    Of course if you go back to the original Greek language, where was this written, u'll find that 1 letter changed a lot.
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