"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." -1 John 3:6
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." -1 John 3:9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." -1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." -1 John 1:10
I don't understand how these four verses go with each other. In 1 John 3, it says that we cannot sin if are born of God, and if we know God then we don't sin. Does this mean that no one is born of God and no one knows God? But then, if we say that we do not sin then 1 John 1 tells us that we make God a liar. So, we all have sinned. But then that means that we don't know God and that we are not born of God.
Can someone explain these verses and bring them all together.
Thanks
Comments
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." -1 John 3:6
good is like a room that is always under atack by the devil (dirt) lets say... to get into that room ur shirt has to be clean(baptisim), than to stay in their, u have to fight/dodge the dirt that is attacking u.... if u get hit, or fall, ur outside the room than u have to wash ur shirt to get back in (confession/repantence).... and this cycle contunies...
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." -1 John 3:9
this is alittle harder... persoanlly i reverse this verse... think about like you are only the son of god if u don't sin, thus Whoever has been born of God does not sin. but if u sin, u can no longer be called son of god, thus his seed would not remain in u. seed meaning name/ title .... not sure about that ^^
and the other two are the same, just break it down where the "," commas are...
im sure if i don't write that many dots my post would make more sence... but im bored... thats why im posting.. how this helps...
o yea!! tieing them all in...
ok basically they all speak about who u are, and what u have to do to keep ur honor and title.
God help us all!!
KrazyLion, your post just confused me more because you basically just restated the verses I put up.
[quote author=KrazyLion link=topic=4994.msg67536#msg67536 date=1171428165]
think about like you are only the son of god if u don't sin, thus Whoever has been born of God does not sin. but if u sin, u can no longer be called son of god, thus his seed would not remain in u. seed meaning name/ title .... not sure about that ^^
This is exactly what 1 John 3:9 says. I'm still confused because then according to your post, no one can be sons of God because only those who do not sin are called sons of God, but everyone sins.
jydeacon, you said that once we are born in God, we can not do anything to upset our Heavenly Father. So, does that mean that none of us are born in God? Because we all upset God whenever we sin and we all sin. What does it mean to be born in God?
However, being humans that we are, we some times leave the side of God and therefore we sin. This is due to the weakness of our humanity. Therefore if someone says I have no sin he is decieveing himself, thinking himself overly righteous.
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin" As long as we are abiding with God we cannot sin,
However, being humans that we are, we some times leave the side of God and therefore we sin. This is due to the weakness of our humanity. Therefore if someone says I have no sin he is decieveing himself, thinking himself overly righteous.
Ok, I understand that verse, but what about the other verse where it says "Whoever has been born of God does not sin"? Does being born of God mean baptism? Because if it does, then why do we still sin? So does this mean that no one is born of God?
What this means for the verses at hand is (this is only my interpretation) when you are clean and free of sin, you are the son of God. When you sin, as we all inevitably do, you become like the prodigal son, whose son-ship was revoked for the time that he strayed and followed sin. Therefore, when you sin, you are no longer worthy of being called the son of God, who is all holy. However, after repenting and confessing your sins, you are once more clean and sinless; you are the prodigal son who has returned to the fatherly bosom. You are the son of God once more. This means that our life is one long battle to maintain our son-ship, our honorary title of being the sons and daughters of Christ.
Hope it helps
As the Holy St. Cyril wrote: In terms of 1 John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." - this refers to our belief that for Christians Christ's death purifies us, which means that although we are still sinners, we are not 'sinning' in the way that those who have not come to Christ are sinners; these last are still under Satan's rule, and therefore they sin. That is why the Holy Apostle goes on to write in 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
In terms of 1 John 1: 8 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Here the Holy Apostle is combating the false claims of the Gnostics, who taught, erroneously, that union with God meant that one did not sin, and that sin, in any case, did not exist. He tells us, rightly, that Faith must be seen in works (verse 6), that we must lead a righteous and holy life, and that we must seek forgiveness and cleansing for our sins - which is why we have confession. Verse 9 refers to the process of theosis; though we sin, we should repent and confess and strive not to sin, by that means we come closer to Him.
Those of us who want a fuller and inspired account, should read THE EPISTLES OF ST. JOHN
by FR. TADROS YACOUB MALATY, published in 2001 - it is an excellent commentary.
In Christ,
John
In terms of 1 John 3:6 "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." - this refers to our belief that for Christians Christ's death purifies us, which means that although we are still sinners, we are not 'sinning' in the way that those who have not come to Christ are sinners; these last are still under Satan's rule, and therefore they sin. That is why the Holy Apostle goes on to write in 1 John 3:9 "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
In Christ,
John
Sin is sin, whether it is done by believers or non-believers.
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." -1 John 3:6
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." -1 John 3:9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." -1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." -1 John 1:10
Eskala23,
Each of these verses are preconditioned by different nodes of time. The first two are laden within an active present participle indicative of incessant struggle Christians must endure against temptation. Sin is aghastly real enough to stifle even the most pious of men. However, in the confrontation against temptation through Our Lord Jesus Christ we make ourselves "active participants" in striving to attain piety. The first two verses shroud the motivational perpetrations that mold and shape a man into his foreshadowed condition for all eternity. Whoever has inherently sought to accompany himself in the love of Christ; while struggling against temptation (even if not always overcoming it); has ultimately accompanied the very identity of Christ Himself.
Whilst sin is the substantial breaking of an interrelational covenant with God, the individual who truly "knows" Christ--that is to live in stark fellowship with our Lord on a personal level--sin prompts itself to be a gaunt repulsion that strikes deep into the heart of his serene composition. By the same token, he who claims to command an understanding of God's love, mercy and purity but embraces the follies of sin has ultimately deceived himself and attested to God's divine foreknowledge of his fate. Such an individual has already (contingently and counterfactually speaking) condemned himself to the perdition of hellfire; such an individual retracts from his bestowed sonship with Christ so long as he resides in Sin. Thus, the word of God redefines the sinner's proximate stance to God, denoting him as an individual without sonship whose father proves to be the devil.
The second set of verses is prescribed under the precepts of an entirely different motife of time--encompassing all of past, present and future. While the former are inscriptive of the active role a valid Christian is expected to take on throughout the course of his life, the latter is inscribed by the natural and fallen condition of mankind in an inscrutable and essential identification. For the notion of Christ's grace and mankind's sinful emancipation via our Lord's death on the cross, the concept of sin must be a veritable and real concept. Sin is mankind's sole offender preventing him from complete exoneration from death and decay. The primary perpetrator antagonizing against our freedom in Christ is slavery, viciously so, under the shackles of death. That is why the gospels talk of the reality of the heart and its need for a redemptive solution—an inauguration of Christ's transformative puissance to alter the very malignancy of man's heart.
The individual who denies his fallen state; even in successfully achieving the victory over the initial set of active struggles against temptation; raises himself to a level above God's grace and, ultimately, above Christ's authority. Such a man has altercated for himself a second set of illicitness nullifying even the first accomplishment to ward sin off. A veritable Christian must not only strive to defeat sin's hold upon him, he must do so submissively to Christ with the cognizance that no power lies in himself; but all is fully submissive to God's grace alone. Therefore, those such as the Christian Science or Pantheistic movements which deny sin’s reality have proven themselves to be liars, both against the authority of inspired Scriptural exegesis as well as against the very nature of their own fallacies. Man's imperfection is forever a trademark to God's perfected act of submissive grace and those who deny their faults before God will never attain the humility and refinement necessary to enter His kingdom. The truth and God's word only resides in the individual who first and foremost acknowledges his need for Christ as a peccable creature and embraces that need in struggle as a perennial son.
God Bless
[quote author=esakla23 link=topic=4994.msg67509#msg67509 date=1171347850]
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." -1 John 3:6
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." -1 John 3:9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." -1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." -1 John 1:10
Eskala23,
Each of these verses are preconditioned by different nodes of time. The first two are laden within an active present participle indicative of incessant struggle Christians must endure against temptation. Sin is ghastly real enough to stifle even the most pious of men. However, in the confrontation against temptation through Our Lord Jesus Christ we make ourselves "active participants" in striving to attain piety. The first two verses shroud the motivational perpetrations that mold and shape a man into his foreshadowed condition for all eternity. Whoever has inherently sought to accompany himself in the love of Christ; while struggling against temptation (even if not always overcoming it); has ultimately accompanied the very identity of Christ Himself.
Whilst sin is the substantial breaking of an international covenant with God, the individual who truly "knows" Christ--that is to live in stark fellowship with our Lord on a personal level--sin prompts itself to be a gaunt repulsion that strikes deep into the heart of his serene composition. By the same token, he who claims to command an understanding of God's love, mercy and purity, but embraces the follies of sin has ultimately deceived himself and attested to God's divine foreknowledge of his fate. Such an individual has already (contingently and counterfactually speaking) condemned himself to the perdition of hellfire; such an individual retracts from his bestowed sonship with Christ so long as he resides in Sin. Thus, the word of God redefines the sinner's proximate stance to God, denoting him as an individual without sonship whose father proves to be the devil.
The second set of verses is prescribed for an entirely deafen matter. While the former are inscriptive of the active role a valid Christian is expected to take on throughout the course of his life, the latter is inscribed by the natural and fallen condition of mankind in an inscrutable and essential identification. For the notion of Christ's grace and mankind's sinful emancipation via our Lord's death on the cross, the concept of sin must be a veritable and real concept. Sin is mankind's sole offender preventing him from complete exoneration from death and decay. The primary perpetrator antagonizing against our freedom in Christ is slavery, viciously so, under the shackles of death. That is why the gospels talk of the reality of the heart and its need for a redemptive solution—an inauguration of Christ's transformative puissance to alter the very malignancy of man's heart.
The individual who denies his fallen state; even in successfully achieving the victory over the initial set of active struggle against temptation; raises himself to a level above God's grace and, ultimately, above Christ's authority. Such a man has altercated for himself a second set of illicitness nullifying even the first accomplishment to ward sin off. A veritable Christian must not only strive to defeat sin's hold upon him, he must do so submissively to Christ with the cognizance that no power lies in Himself; but all is fully submissive to God's grace alone. Therefore, those such as the Christian Science or Pantheistic movements which deny sin’s reality have proven themselves to be liars, both against the authority of inspired Scriptural exegesis as well as against the very nature of their own fallacies. Man's imperfection is forever a trademark to God's perfected act of submissive grace and those who deny their faults before God will never attain the humility and refinement necessary to enter His kingdom. The truth and God's word only resides in the individual first and foremost acknowledges his need for Christ as a peccable creature and embraces that need in struggle as a perennial son.
God Bless
Are you saying that if we strive to not sin, we are considered as abiding in God and not sinning?
This is an edifying and informative discussion, and we are all in the debt of Esakla23 for a very good commentary.
Being such a new convert to this great Church, I write with hesitation, but try to bring here what I have recently been taught; please correct me if I err.
If we say we have no sin, then, the Holy Evangelist tells us, we lie. How true, don't we all know that feeling? His precious blood cleanses us from our sin, but even after our sins are forgiven us at our baptism we stumble, we fall, and we sin again; but how great is His love? So great that we can confess to our Priest and we can be forgiven again. As the great and Holy St. Athanasius wrote: We are told to ask of God that He will forgive our sins - so, if we say we do not sin, we make a liar of Him - and how can we do that terrible sin?
We must, as Esakla23 reminds us, read 1 John 3:6, 9 in the light of the rest of this epistle, lest we fall into the same error as some of the Gnostics and think that there are two types of baptism, one by water and one by the Spirit; this is heresy and is therefore not what the Holy Church teaches.
Let us turn to the God-guided Holy Fathers rather than rely upon our own thoughts: Remember what we are told in 1 John 2:1-6 Is the meaning not now plain to us. As baptized Christians our sins are washed away, but since we will still sin, we have to go to confession, and Jesus Christ will be our advocate, because He is the propitiation for our sins. We must, however, try to keep His commandments and walk in His way, and if we will do that, we know we are in Him.
Does this seem right? As I say, I hesitate to write on such a hard theme, but try to recapitulate what I have been taught.
In Christ,
John
Thanks for contributing to this discussion and answering my questions.
I read these verses in a different version other than the NKJV, the NIV, and I found that it makes more sense when reading the NIV. This is how it reads in the NIV:
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. -1 John 3:6
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. -1 John 3:9
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. -1 John 1:8
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. -1 John 1:10
So, the NIV says that if we are born of God or if we know God or if we live in God, then we do not continue living in sin. So, the difference between Christians and non-Christians is that Christians cannot continue sinning, but non-Christians continue sinning.
I think this is the exact same thing that everyone else was saying, that the reason why Christians do not continue sinning is because we have Jesus Christ in our lives, and we have His mercy and forgiveness that washes away our sins every time we repent and confess. Also, as Christians, we have a Comforter that will help us not continue our sinful practices, which is the Holy Spirit.
I am sorry but this is a commonly mistaken fact. We, in baptism, receive forgiveness of our sins through death and reserruction with Christ. This is the difference between baptism and confession, and what makes baptism greater. Repentance and Confession however are commonly referred to as a "second baptism" however because through them, one is cleansed of their sins thoroughly.