Hi, Thanks a million, that's a brilliant link! The USA Coptic Churches are doing great!! Im impressed. It seems the only thing left for them is to ordain Iqbal a bishop and create a theological college to equal the wonderous works of our Aussie friends.
Well done.
I just wanna say, that all these questions, aren't JUST for my personal benefit. The fact that we can explain our differences on each dogmatic point will be used to evangelise our Church's fidelity to the faith and dogma given to it from the time of the apostles.
My personal opinion is that : Christ died for us, and His Holy Blood purges my sins. PERIOD. Why then have purgatory. ANd what on earth is the point of communion in the RC church (as well as confession and repentance) if no matter WHAT they do, they still go to purgatory?!!!! That's odd?? But my opinion is NOT sufficient to respond. So, i like the verses presented by H.H. Bishop of Southern California.
However, the RC's will still attack us on the explanation given:
4. The purgatory contradicts God’s Mercy: David the Prophet said, “Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” (Ps 51:7) He did not say ‘purge me with fire, burn me in purgatory and I shall be clean.’ Human nature is not purged with fire but rather with the grace of our merciful God and the work of His Holy spirit.
Our Lord said, “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Is 1:18) – This will not occur through the tormenting flames of purgatory after departing from this world but rather through the work of the Holy Spirit in repentance during this present life. · “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.” (Ezek 36:25) Purging is an act of mercy and grace not of punishment, it takes place here on earth not after death, and it is through clean water not tormenting flames of fire!
That's a great response, but the RC's point of view is this: God forgives us our sins, but there is ALWAYS a price to pay. The vase is broken, i forgive u for breaking the vase, but what about the damage? U see how they think?? That if i kill someone, then God will forgive me - but because God is eternally just, then His Blood absolves me of my sin, yet He will expect me to pay a price for the EFFECT / ACTION of my sin?? They tried to explain it to me, and i know im not the best one at conveying information, but do u get their point?????
our theological collage here in Australia is great!
as for the sense of humour about Iqbal - i dont think its funny at all - im sure he can defend himself and speak for himself etc - but i must say that when i read that i was offended and hence my need to speak up.
our theological collage here in Australia is great!
as for the sense of humour about Iqbal - i dont think its funny at all - im sure he can defend himself and speak for himself etc - but i must say that when i read that i was offended and hence my need to speak up.
bye ppl
Kristina123
I think when you consider the good deeds, the wisdom , the knowledge and spiritual accumen that one needs to see in someone to ordain them a bishop; i can not see, for the life of me, how this is in anyway something bad to say. On the contrary, i recommend such an individual - anyone with Iqbal's qualities to enter the priesthood. I would, and i'd definately recommend that for him.
Its remarkable the caliber of christians the US and Australia have produced. I truley am impressed.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5068.msg68336#msg68336 date=1173364462] I think when you consider the good deeds, the wisdom , the knowledge and spiritual accumen that one needs to see in someone to ordain them a bishop; i can not see, for the life of me, how this is in anyway something bad to say. On the contrary, i recommend such an individual - anyone with Iqbal's qualities to enter the priesthood. I would, and i'd definately recommend that for him.
Its remarkable the caliber of christians the US and Australia have produced. I truley am impressed.
well if that happends, i don't think well get much of Iqbal here on the site, rit............?
Comments
Hi,
What is the Coptic Orthodox Response to Purgatory?
Thanks
there is no such thing. i am sure Iqbal will have a better word since this is more of a dogmatic topic.
http://www.suscopts.org/literature/literature.php?misc=search&subaction=showfull&id=1084916893&archive=&cnshow=news&start_from=&;
http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/eschlecture7.pdf
Thanks a million, that's a brilliant link!
The USA Coptic Churches are doing great!! Im impressed. It seems the only thing left for them is to ordain Iqbal a bishop and create a theological college to equal the wonderous works of our Aussie friends.
Well done.
I just wanna say, that all these questions, aren't JUST for my personal benefit. The fact that we can explain our differences on each dogmatic point will be used to evangelise our Church's fidelity to the faith and dogma given to it from the time of the apostles.
My personal opinion is that : Christ died for us, and His Holy Blood purges my sins. PERIOD. Why then have purgatory. ANd what on earth is the point of communion in the RC church (as well as confession and repentance) if no matter WHAT they do, they still go to purgatory?!!!! That's odd?? But my opinion is NOT sufficient to respond. So, i like the verses presented by H.H. Bishop of Southern California.
However, the RC's will still attack us on the explanation given:
4. The purgatory contradicts God’s Mercy:
David the Prophet said, “Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” (Ps 51:7) He did not say ‘purge me with fire, burn me in purgatory and I shall be clean.’ Human nature is not purged with fire but rather with the grace of our merciful God and the work of His Holy spirit.
Our Lord said, “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Is 1:18) – This will not occur through the tormenting flames of purgatory after departing from this world but rather through the work of the Holy Spirit in repentance during this present life.
· “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your
filthiness and from all your idols.” (Ezek 36:25)
Purging is an act of mercy and grace not of punishment, it takes place here on earth not after death, and it is through clean water not tormenting flames of fire!
That's a great response, but the RC's point of view is this: God forgives us our sins, but there is ALWAYS a price to pay. The vase is broken, i forgive u for breaking the vase, but what about the damage? U see how they think?? That if i kill someone, then God will forgive me - but because God is eternally just, then His Blood absolves me of my sin, yet He will expect me to pay a price for the EFFECT / ACTION of my sin?? They tried to explain it to me, and i know im not the best one at conveying information, but do u get their point?????
Where the HECK is Iqbal!????
well we dont believe in the notion of Purgatory
our theological collage here in Australia is great!
as for the sense of humour about Iqbal - i dont think its funny at all - im sure he can defend himself and speak for himself etc - but i must say that when i read that i was offended and hence my need to speak up.
bye ppl
Kristina123
hey ppl
well we dont believe in the notion of Purgatory
our theological collage here in Australia is great!
as for the sense of humour about Iqbal - i dont think its funny at all - im sure he can defend himself and speak for himself etc - but i must say that when i read that i was offended and hence my need to speak up.
bye ppl
Kristina123
I think when you consider the good deeds, the wisdom , the knowledge and spiritual accumen that one needs to see in someone to ordain them a bishop; i can not see, for the life of me, how this is in anyway something bad to say. On the contrary, i recommend such an individual - anyone with Iqbal's qualities to enter the priesthood. I would, and i'd definately recommend that for him.
Its remarkable the caliber of christians the US and Australia have produced. I truley am impressed.
I think when you consider the good deeds, the wisdom , the knowledge and spiritual accumen that one needs to see in someone to ordain them a bishop; i can not see, for the life of me, how this is in anyway something bad to say. On the contrary, i recommend such an individual - anyone with Iqbal's qualities to enter the priesthood. I would, and i'd definately recommend that for him.
Its remarkable the caliber of christians the US and Australia have produced. I truley am impressed.
well if that happends, i don't think well get much of Iqbal here on the site, rit............?