Hi,
What questions is a man allowed to ask a woman (or vice versa) when dating or even engaged to be married?
I mean - put it this way: what questions should NOT be asked? and why??
I mean, ya3ni... are u allowed to know if she's had boyfriends before?? or if so, if she has had, whether she's .... you know.... ???
I mean, ya3ni...
Look: Efred massalan massalan ya3ni you dated a girl, oK? and and u liked each other, and u are both Christian; but do u have the right to know (at THAT stage) what she's confessed before or not???
I mean, does a girl have to answer "personal" questions before getting married... or is it none of anyone's business so long as she did what she did when she wasn't anyone's wife???
Comments
Hi,
What questions is a man allowed to ask a woman (or vice versa) when dating or even engaged to be married?
I mean - put it this way: what questions should NOT be asked? and why??
I mean, ya3ni... are u allowed to know if she's had boyfriends before?? or if so, if she has had, whether she's .... you know.... ???
I mean, ya3ni...
Look: Efred massalan massalan ya3ni you dated a girl, oK? and and u liked each other, and u are both Christian; but do u have the right to know (at THAT stage) what she's confessed before or not???
I mean, does a girl have to answer "personal" questions before getting married... or is it none of anyone's business so long as she did what she did when she wasn't anyone's wife???
hhmmmmmmm isn't marriage a never-ending relationship, than you batter ask the person u'll spend that with all the qustions you want.
vassilios,
please lets not start another dating topics. there is many posts about that allready that are long as 10 pages. please search for them and i am 100% sure u'll find any answer close to that.
Look: Let's say a girl has sex before marriage. She confesses it. She repents for it. Abouna tells her: "Your sins have been forgiven. Sin no more".
THen , let's say she hears the advice of some other priest that says "Hey, never talk about what u've confessed".
this could also mean dont boast about your sins in case you fall back into temptation........
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68530#msg68530 date=1173873789]
A guy comes along and wants to marry her. Does he have the right to know about her past? And if he does have a right to know, how much should he be allowed to know??
well I think so….any chick or guy would get upset if they found out during their marriage that they werent a virgin plus it makes you human.......hey i screwed up but i want to lead a better life and im extremely remorseful of what i did....... To live in a relationship filled with unconfessed sin, secret struggles, and hidden failures is anything but intimate. Confession may lead to a period of profound pain and disappointment, but without full disclosure, the marriage cannot be authentic and will never become the type of relationship that God desires for us. honesty is the best policy……….BUT the question is when is the most appropriate time for disclosure??
Mina,
My topic is different from all other topics.
Look: Let's say a girl has sex before marriage. She confesses it. She repents for it. Abouna tells her: "Your sins have been forgiven. Sin no more".
THen , let's say she hears the advice of some other priest that says "Hey, never talk about what u've confessed".
A guy comes along and wants to marry her. Does he have the right to know about her past? And if he does have a right to know, how much should he be allowed to know??
YES HE DOES. also there have to be connection between the couples and their FoC
But that's strange mina: we all agreed that Confessions should be a thing of the past. Now, its something u have to say again to someone.
Remarkable.
yes. but a marriage is a huge matter. it's linked to the relationship of Christ to the Church. how He sacrificed Himself for her.
same to the couple. they first become one and are responsible for each other. so they need to know everything about everyother with the exception of the having FoC between them.
it's like how u confess to abouna. you can't just tell him trust me, i'll say my sins in front of the altar but you just absolve me, without him hearing you.
But what you don't know doesn't hurt you.
Perhaps that's why she doesnt want to tell u: so you don't get hurt and stop loving her??
in my opinion, if he doesn't forgive her, than he really doesn't love her. that goes back to the real meaning of love.
but according to our church, either couple have the right to accept or reject the other.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68551#msg68551 date=1173886215]
You see, let's say a girl was a prostitute. OK. She discovers Christ. Confesses her sins, repents and has communion. the priest tells her what u just said : "its over" , or "its the past, and u no longer have to talk about it".
She meets a guy (from the Church), they fall in love and decide to get married. Her husband, the man she just married, catches a sexually transmitted disease.
i don't think the std thingy would happen in our church. in our church, the couples go through many medical tests that prove their healthiness and eligibility to be married (sexually) before marriage. ok. to make it easy. you can think of a husband as the earthly christ to the wife (since Christ is the head of the church, the man (earthly christ) is the head of the wife), if he asks about something in your life and you are required to say (meaning your FoC said u need to if he asks) than you have to answer and than he chooses what to do.
vassilios, this topic doesn't have a straight answer. it all goes back to the relationship between the couples and their fathers of confession. it differs between every couples. there is no rule for this.
If you are in a position like this, or know one who would be, you wont go online on a live forum and tell everyone or ask for advice there. (Would you….??!!!!!)
no you would go to your foc and he'll tell you what to do.
Mina,
Of course one should go to his/her FoC if he/she is in this situation; but i've always wanted to know what my rights were before engaging in a relationship with a girl. What is allowed etc.
you can ask your FoC. it's not ours to say what's right and what's wrong. and please don't consider marriage to be that way.
my right and your right and than it would be like a whole new world that is run by a man........ am sorry but that's fully reasonable so nothing would happend of what you said before about stds. again.
you cannot, except if there is other words from your FoC. and again you can ask anything but the other spouse would answer upon the guidance of their FoC.
and please just end this.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68555#msg68555 date=1173891275]
Man... my question was simple: Can we or can we not HIDE stuff from our future spouse??
No, you cannot hide anything from your future spouse. They are entitled to know everything about you, your past, your history, your screw-ups, what have you. The reason is simple. This is the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with. You will become one body, one flesh. You have every right to know things about your future spouse.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68555#msg68555 date=1173891275]
What's wrong with that? If we can hide, then asking personal questions about their past or talkng about ur past is wrong. If the Church says we have to "Disclose" all - then ok, how much can we ask?
Any relationship that is based on deception cannot and will not survive. That is why it is imperative that two people who wish to dedicate their lives to one another are entirely honest with each other. There are no secrets between couples. How much is too much is up to you to decide. Granted, you do not want to push your significant other into a corner, and make them feel uncomfortable in any way. Thus, it is important that when discussing matters of personal history, that one is sensitive to the other person's feelings. Even if a person has confessed a particular sin and it has been forgiven them by God, that does not mean you do not have a right to know about it. Christ said that He is the Truth and that the Truth would set you free. Be honest. Be truthful. If you really love one another, then you will be able to overcome any and everything. Remember, 'Love never fails'.
[quote author=1Corinthians 13:4-8]
Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails;
(emphasis mine)
Please pray for me.
I don’t want to get into a lifelong, holy, relationship with someone who lacks self control and self respect.. especially if they knew better.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68559#msg68559 date=1173894671]
Abouna, in a meeting, said :"once u confess, then its NO ONE's business. You should never discuss what you've confessed with ANYONE".
Your future spouse is not just anyone. They are entitled to know everything about you.
Please pray for me.
Hi people,
I think i should have given u some bearings as to how this came about:
Abouna, in a meeting, said :"once u confess, then its NO ONE's business. You should never discuss what you've confessed with ANYONE".
So, i started thinking: WHat if u date someone who was so bad that confessed everything? Is it sensible to just be ignorant?? U see what I mean??
well u can go ask that priest. i am sure he wouldn't include marriage in a public meeting.
what if the other spouse does. they have the right o know eveyrthing as everyone said beforeeeeee
Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but I think your word choice is a little bit inappropriate, don't you? You could have said exactly the same sort of thing using more 'civil' and 'mature' language.
Please pray for me.
Abouna is quite strict.. i don't wanna keep on asking him this question Mina... He'll think im a heretic, whereas im just trying to understand....
Abouna would never think of u in a low estate. Even if you asking the stupidest questions. He would may be get carried away but will never reject you. You’re one of his sheep, he’s responsible for you, and he will never leave you.
Also as I stated before, this must also be between your father of confession and may be your spiritual guide sins it’s not a sin related method. They can be the same person
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=5102.msg68563#msg68563 date=1173898576]
Wow interesting topic... but hey lets talk about it with common sense, leave confession out of it… if a Girl was screwed, I would never think of marrying her… “once a whore, always a whore” if she did not protect her body when not with you, what makes you so sure she would when with you? You will not like it and it will be a failing relationship, and it’s a part of the manhood, not to overlook such a thing! Some people do repent… but you know what, how do you know they wouldn’t do that again… this topic is actually a really good topic… but ya a man needs to know all past experiences of his future wife… and has all right to let her go if he knows of things that would not make her worthy to hold his name! One more thought…. Imagine you and your wife are talking, all happy in a store… and one of the guys that screwed your wife were there, how would you feel? Leave confession out of it, leave religion out of it… just use your common sense… and what would make you comfortable in the future!
I agree with Κηφᾶς. Please watch your words. This is a live forum ppl.
Also what you’re saying is unacceptable.
First, talking church wise. You live Christianity all of your life not only in chosen times. So you can’t leave confession out of it.
Second, how should Christ forgive you, a sinner, who He knows will sin again, if you can’t forgive others. It says in the our Father prayer…….."Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespassed against us." The Church yes gives you the right to reject what’s not accepted but we all will be judged one day. Considering all what we did and what we thought.
Actually, it does matter how the message is said. In the way you posted before, people could be repulsed, annoyed or even get angry, and then what? You haven't conveyed the meaning you wanted because of the words you chose, and your entire argument gets dismissed.
Now, something I didn't address previously, and wish to do now is the following: Thankfully, our Lord, God and Saviour does not think the way you do, otherwise there would be no hope for any of us. You seem to have forgotten one very important Sacrament of our Church: Repentance and Confession. When a person repents of a sin, they have essentially made the choice to change their way of thinking and walk away from that sin permanently. This is the case for any and all sins, without exception. So you're little quote above holds no water in light of what the Church teaches us.
Please pray for me.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I shouldn't have to remind everyone that their are more ways to express your thoughts and ideas, than to use words that might offend someone reading the topic.
I hope I don't have to say this again.
-Maged
While I don't doubt you had the best of intentions in your initial post, that still does not mean that others reading it will not get offended. Now I realize that not everyone will be able to accept and marry a person who is not a virgin. I, for one, probably would have a hard time of it. But I'm sure there are others, who are spiritually more advanced than I am, that might be able to. In the end, God has created the perfect soulmate for each person. We don't know who they are, but when we meet them we will know. They will have been created just for us, and, by the grace of God, they shall remain pure for us.
As for reciting from a reference book, well, truth be told, I haven't been. I've just been telling you my own thoughts on the matter. And for the record, this is almost certainly how I would be talking to you, if you and I were face to face. ;)
Please pray for me.
Okay….only if you're "holy" you can go ahead and be able to forgive such…..
1 Peter 1:15-16
but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy."
God give you the common sense that u r using as an excuse and He also give every possible way to follow Him and all of your life with Him. Dude, you, as a Christian, is united with your spouse through the church. How can you ignore that??!! He uses those that are not against the church’s. He’s a man of the church. And considering a marriage in a manner out of church is not acceptable in our church. you’re opinion is wrong since not even considering the church a part of your daily life. I would love to know what are the positives in what you said.
And I just feel sorry for those who are taught to disregard the church in there life.
NO! NO! NO! “what Superman bam said is unchristian” no homeboy… what I say I can back up by scriptures of the bible… and I can get priests to agree with… and bishops… one of which is anba bola btw… LOL… don’t come and judge me saying what I say is Christian like… or not Christian like… believe me homeboy, I’m advanced in years, I’m talking about life… something one day you will know about… that was said with all due respect btw… wow! You know in your little statement you called me a heretic btw… something I will not allow anyone to accuse me of… so next time read my posts… and ask your father of confession about it… why don’t you do that… but make sure you print it out… because I can tell you still don’t get my message… but oh well… NEVER CALL ME A HERETIC… for you have NO authority, nor age to call me such!
oh wait, i called you a heretic...........am sorry, i dono where did i ever say the word but my be you understood it.........so what...u said ur "old" and lived "life" on it's fullness. than take it like a man or a 20 yr man if am not mistaken.
i would just like to see all the "scriptures, priests, and bishops" that you're talking about that will back up what you said. please go head and do that, my email is : [email][email protected][/email]. you can ask any "priests and bishops" who can back you up. and i really don't care of ur 20 or 40, am still right of what i said above.
(this is not a place to start this. that's why i listed my email.)
Don't you love how threads get hijacked and go completely off topic? :D
Btw anba bola is the one that takes care of marital relationships... so he's the one that if there is a problem with married couple they go to him... so he's perfect for such a question... That’s what I've been talking about all along... you have the right to ask... so you can accept.. Don’t be oblivious about a person and just accept... that’s what I've been trying to say all along homeboy! Yes, but he didn’t accept her for marriage... that was a joke... don’t jump down my throat for it!
When you are talking about 'anba bola', are you talking about St. Paul the First Anchorite, or St. Paul the Apostle? Just so we're on the same page.
Please pray for me.
I'm having a strange sense of deja vu...
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5102.msg68557#msg68557 date=1173892301]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68555#msg68555 date=1173891275]
Man... my question was simple: Can we or can we not HIDE stuff from our future spouse??
No, you cannot hide anything from your future spouse. They are entitled to know everything about you, your past, your history, your screw-ups, what have you. The reason is simple. This is the person you are going to spend the rest of your life with. You will become one body, one flesh. You have every right to know things about your future spouse.
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5102.msg68555#msg68555 date=1173891275]
What's wrong with that? If we can hide, then asking personal questions about their past or talkng about ur past is wrong. If the Church says we have to "Disclose" all - then ok, how much can we ask?
Any relationship that is based on deception cannot and will not survive. That is why it is imperative that two people who wish to dedicate their lives to one another are entirely honest with each other. There are no secrets between couples. How much is too much is up to you to decide. Granted, you do not want to push your significant other into a corner, and make them feel uncomfortable in any way. Thus, it is important that when discussing matters of personal history, that one is sensitive to the other person's feelings. Even if a person has confessed a particular sin and it has been forgiven them by God, that does not mean you do not have a right to know about it. Christ said that He is the Truth and that the Truth would set you free. Be honest. Be truthful. If you really love one another, then you will be able to overcome any and everything. Remember, 'Love never fails'.
[quote author=1Corinthians 13:4-8]
Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails;
(emphasis mine)
Please pray for me.
I think we can reject someone if we don't like them, or feel they are bad for us; but to reject them for a sin they may have committed is unchristian. U're not obliged to marry them, but to not forgive is a sin.
not only unchristian but unfair since we are all sinners.