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Which is the greater virtue? ...
praying for the poor or giving to the poor?
I still don't know how monks will be judged on the last day.. they seemed to be accepted by God.. (like saint anthony) yet they never served people maybe (did they visit a prisoner, give encouraging words, feed the hungry? ).. and did they ever use their talents? I know some did.. some painted religious icons.. but what about those who have a talent in maths or science or some other talent?
monks make themselves poor so does that exclude them from giving to the poor?
will praying for the afflicted save them without serving? didn't james say..
James 2 (King James Version)
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
FROM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james 2;&version=9;
also if everyone became a monk or nun noone would serve right?
It has been said that monks give fruit on a greater scale than married people yet there was a story of a monk whom God showed to him someone or someones equal or greater than him the person or persons being married people..
I wanted to become a monk before and still might.. if its Gods will.. I think it might be more suited to me.. yet I am having some problems understanding things.
I hope I can enjoy God more being a monk. I hope it is not all labor and weariness but that you can have some rest in Gods love..
Why does God want someone only to suffer in his life if its all just weariness?
I still don't know how monks will be judged on the last day.. they seemed to be accepted by God.. (like saint anthony) yet they never served people maybe (did they visit a prisoner, give encouraging words, feed the hungry? ).. and did they ever use their talents? I know some did.. some painted religious icons.. but what about those who have a talent in maths or science or some other talent?
monks make themselves poor so does that exclude them from giving to the poor?
will praying for the afflicted save them without serving? didn't james say..
James 2 (King James Version)
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
FROM
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james 2;&version=9;
also if everyone became a monk or nun noone would serve right?
It has been said that monks give fruit on a greater scale than married people yet there was a story of a monk whom God showed to him someone or someones equal or greater than him the person or persons being married people..
I wanted to become a monk before and still might.. if its Gods will.. I think it might be more suited to me.. yet I am having some problems understanding things.
I hope I can enjoy God more being a monk. I hope it is not all labor and weariness but that you can have some rest in Gods love..
Why does God want someone only to suffer in his life if its all just weariness?
Comments
again, i'm not sure, so don't quote me on this.
A most interesting question. But perhaps the greatest virtue of all is obedience to the Divine Will. It was for her great submission and obedience to His will that Our Lady the Most Holy Theotokos is the most blessed among women; and it was in His submission and obedience to the Will of the Father in Gethsemane, that Our Lord saved us all.
Whatever we do for the poorest amongst us, we do for Him, and both body and soul need nourishment. So often in this world we remember to feed the body and cultivate a spiritual anorexia.
Let us be still and silent - and listen for that still, small voice which will tell us where obedience lies.
In Christ,
John
I've been giving this question some thought and have come to the conclusion that it is an invalid question. 'Which is the greater virtue?' I suppose we could ask 'Which is the greater sin?' The thing is, we can't. Sin is sin, no matter what it is, whether it is murder or telling a white lie to cover for a friend. The consequences for both are the same: we cut ourselves off from the Source of Life. We stray from the path of righteousness. Likewise asking, 'which is the greater virtue?' has little merit as well. The aims of practicing virtues is to not stray from the path of righteousness and to permanently connect ourselves to the Source of Life. There is no 'greater' virtue, because all virtues are interconnected. For instance, you ask about which is better, feeding the poor or praying for them. Well, they are both virtues that will lead you on the path. They are both things spoken about by our Lord, to pray and to help the poor. They are connected. In fact, I would go so far as to say that they are one and the same. Everyone does what he or she is capable of doing. If it is within your means to physically aid the poor, do it. If it is not, then pray for them. One does not 'count' more than the other. John raised the issue of obedience. Well, humility breeds obedience. Obedience breeds actions (such as prayers, fasts, service). So you see, there is no 'greater' virtue, just as there is no 'greater' sin.
Please pray for me.
praying for the poor or giving to the poor?
it depends on what you can do. like if you're a poor, you can't give to the poor. so you pray for them. Bishops are monks. they serve people. also some monks have the talent to heal and to prophsize and to do many things we don't know how to. i call that serving. how do you think they live upon...the money they get from selling things. atleast that's for the old monks.
nuns do tons of things we use in church. most of the equipment we use in our coptic churchs are done by monks and nuns.
btw, to be a monk today, you have to gave atleast a 4 year college degree from an offical college or a uni.
that means you had a talent and a carear to. ok now
James 2:14-17 (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
ok now monks or nuns as we all know are people who were granted a call from God to die from the world and serve God. They serve God. That is their work. Some people say they take the hard/easy way to get to heaven. First it’s hard because serving God in the same way they do is not easy..and there is many stories about real monk saints who prove that. Easy because the service is between you and God, not another person. The hardest way of serving is when you serve to God but than there is a third person involved. Which can be a poor one, a family, or a Sunday school child that you are responsible for. that would never happened. Because God is the One who send you the call to be a monk or a nun. It’s not a choice, it’s a call from the Almighty One to serve Him. that story happened with St. Makkarri if I am not mistaken.
The exact story is that St. Makkarri thought of himself as a full perfect man and there is no one else like him. So God took him to a city in Alexandria and showed him a house of two widows that had I think 4 kids and treated each other they were sisters. And the children were exactly valued the same to both sisters. All of that was done in living with God a righteous life.
So the reason God showed St Makkarri this is to teach him a lesson. well you have the main thing in mind which is 'Gods will'. if God wants you He’ll tell you and show you to am sure. All you have to do is just pray. a dear priest said this to me once that there is 2 crowns in life, a gold one and a black one. Gold is living the best life you can ever get, black is not a good life as the gold is. So you choose one on earth and u’ll get the other in heaven. Also that doesn’t mean physical, financial, or emotional struggle on earth but spiritual struggle to get to the fullest of it. Of course no one will be ever perfect but God gave you everything to always thrive for that.
This is something I didn't notice before but wish to address: To put it simply, this is not your concern. This is something between the individual (notice I'm being more general now, and including all people, as opposed to only monks) and God. How a person is judged on the last day is not something you should think about. What you should be focusing on is your own life: your own prayers, fasts, services, studies, work and the like. The only person you are responsible for and accountable for is yourself.
Please pray for me.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
To put it simply, this is not your concern. This is something between the individual (notice I'm being more general now, and including all people, as opposed to only monks) and God. How a person is judged on the last day is not something you should think about. What you should be focusing on is your own life: your own prayers, fasts, services, studies, work and the like. The only person you are responsible for and accountable for is yourself.
Great point.
many poeple care to much about the last day and leave the current one. don't forget that the last day wont change much for those who are already dead. so just worry about yourself and worry about your salvation and be ready for the time of departure every single minute of your life.
Becoming a monk is a calling. God has chosen people and called them to a life of asceticism. If you are called to be a monk, it is a great blessing and should be embraced. However, whether you become a monk or not will in no way affect you 'odds' of entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Your faith and works will. Partaking of the Divine Mysteries, confessing, repenting, keeping Christ's commandments; these are the things you should be doing regardless of whether you are a monk or not. It is these things which will allow you to enter Heaven. As for thinking negatively of monks: why would you?
Please pray for me.
Your comments contain great wisdom, and direct us to the repentance that each of us needs to bring before Our Lord. Of all the virtues, love of God and of our fellow man are what will most likely lead us to this place. He so loved us that He gave His only begotten Son that we should have life eternal; all He asks is that we should be what we were made to be.
In Christ,
John
John,
To quote a person who far exceeds me wisdom: :)
Please pray for me.
You are very kind. Pondering this topic further I wondered whether we might, if pressed, think that love was the greatest of all virtues? As St. Paul told the Church in Corinth:
1 Corinthians:13 St. Paul's description of what Christian love is seems to me one of the most beautiful parts of our scriptures, and here, on the eve of the celebration of the Resurrection of our dear Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, perhaps I will be pardoned quoting this familiar passage - but it so expresses His love for us: And who do we know who fits this picture of perfect love? The One who was crucified on Good Friday and who rose on the third day. How can we not respond in love and repent of our sins, calling on Him, through the Church, to forgive us and to strengthen us in all goodness, that we might walk in His way and do His will?
May the Risen Lord have mercy on us, for we are all sinners - that is why He died for us, that we might live - in Him and through Him. Praise be to Him!
In Christ,
John
Dear John,
You make a very interesting point. Love is a very very very important virtue. But thinking about it, are the virtues themselves great, or is the person who possesses these virtues great (and by great, I mean great in the eyes of God, not the eyes of man). I have a fantastic book that I would recommend you try to get your hands on. It is called Paradise of the Spirit by H.G. Bishop Youanis the late Bishop of Gharbia. In it, he talks about how many of the Desert Fathers felt that humility was in fact the greatest virtue. If I may quote a part of the book: Now, I've been thinking about the importance of love and humility, and I think that they are both the foundations of the building of our spiritual lives. If we continue the analogy of the building, the foundation is often composed of cement, which is a combination of water and dry cement mix. In such a case, our spiritual foundation must also be composed of both humility and love. You cannot have one without the other. They are so intricately entwined that they become one while still being distinct. On this foundation are all other virtues built. With each virtue gained, one more story is constructed in our spiritual building and our spiritual lives grow, until finally we have completed construction (construction being our continuous striving towards theosis).
It is the completed building which is great, and not any one element in that building (i.e. the foundation, the steel beams or such). Thus, once we have been perfected in Christ, it is we who are great and not a single virtue, because once we have become perfected in Christ, we will have possessed all virtues, just as Christ possesses all virtues. We will become truly Christ-like.
Please pray for me.
Thank you so much for your wise post; I totally agree, and very much like the way you put it. I shall look out for + Youanis' book, which is obviously well worth close study; I am grateful to you for putting me on to it.
Yes, humility is the foundation stone. He calls us to repentance and to amendment of life - which starts with our having the humility to hear and to obey.
As we celebrate the Feast of the Resurrection, may His blessings be with us all, always.
In Christ,
John