The hymn "ontos" is supposed to be chanted before the reading of the Catholikon (during the Apostle's fast ofcourse). Given that it is a rather long hymn, is anyone aware of it being read plainly instead of chanted, or at least aware of whether or not such is acceptable practise?
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The hymn "ontos" is supposed to be chanted before the reading of the Catholikon (during the Apostle's fast ofcourse). Given that it is a rather long hymn, is anyone aware of it being read plainly instead of chanted, or at least aware of whether or not such is acceptable practise?
well it's not that long ya3ny. u can read it...i don't think there is anything wrong with that. it's just that it's a hymn that is chanted not read. there is a way that u can make it a little shorter. you know the [coptic]Apou`qrwou[/coptic] part, or what ever part with the long beginning, it can be skipped. there was a muallem in my church, God departs his soul, who always jumped the word in a very nice way and would continue normally.
btw, the 3 or 4 part we say are not the whole hymn. u can see that there are more parts in the middle that no one says...even thoo they are recorded....and some try to say them....but as you said before, time is an issue.
If you are speaking about this hymn specifically, then I think that what minagir is right. It is not very long; and you can learn it easily; at least easier than other hymns (like in Passion week for example).
Generally speaking, I do always "draw maps" (a7ot hazzat) for those long hymns that I don't know: and I think I know none of the long hymns in our church, so I started drawing maps for a few of them. I even used to take the paper with me to church, and read it out alongside the singing of deacons. To be very honest, I have no problem if anyone looks at me, and thinks to themselves: "oh, how nice", or "oh, he doesn't know anything". BUT, I really find it not so nice what I am doing. The best thing that I lately reached is to draw a map (if that is what you originally meant), and read it out several times while you are listening so that in a few days you will learn it by heart. Again, no problem if you take the paper with you to church: not a big deal anyway, but it is just not so nice in my view. It is just my ploy to get to learn hymns quickly enough without a cantor, and after getting a bit old; oh, I am very old now ;D
God bless you and mention me in your prayers
in my church. they skip the long part and just combine the names of the apostal's.
I have never heard the hymn be read plainly without chanting it, but I suppose you could do it if there's no chance to chant it. Perhaps you could let the person who's going to read the catholic epistle say the translation outloud, just before the introduction to the epistle.
I hope you didn't misunderstand me saying that you never heard the hymn being read out plainly. This is not what I meant. In my post replying to Iqbal I meant reading out the "map" that I drew for that hymn (that means the melismata). In any case, in all honesty, I didn't like the idea that that cantor in minagir's previous church used to skip the long part of the hymn and basically just sing the introductory bit and the last bit of each verse. As this hymn doesn't have a "shorter" version, I think it is not wise to sing it this way. You either sing a hymn correctly or not at all, but many people sometimes (and I am not talking now about that specific cantor) make up new styles for the hymns, and thereby ruin the point the hymn wants to make. I hope I am clear, and that you understand what I want to say, as well know, every meslismatum in those hymns do exist for a reason, and not just because they are nice.
God bless you all and mention me in your prayers
In any case, in all honesty, I didn't like the idea that that cantor in minagir's previous church used to skip the long part of the hymn and basically just sing the introductory bit and the last bit of each verse. As this hymn doesn't have a "shorter" version, I think it is not wise to sing it this way.
well it's not he used to skip, it was just another way which i heard from the muallem that taght him. i think Iqbal was generally speaking about this hymn time wise, not 'hard to say' wise.
lol....this just reminds me when i learned this hymn with some other frinds and our alhan teacher at church...after finishing it int that class, we were going to review just general annual hymns, so we got to the Trisagion before the litany of the gospel...and what happends......we mess up in the first verse. ;D
Yes, it is common, isn't it? Our church hymns are very simple, yet complicated. Simple in that they have similar segments, and complicated because we have to do much effort to understand why this tune goes up and not down like in another hymn. It should be very interesting what each and every meslisma means in those hymns, but disappointingly and equally shockingly, we lost them, because we are Egyptians.
God bless you and pray for me a lot