Hi, I told a friend of mine that we eat the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. He said :"Well, that's cannabilism". I said "no..its spiritual food"; but he said, if you eat the flesh of someone that's cannabilism.
Well, you could always just look at him and be like, 'You know what, you're right. A word of advice, don't upset me or you may wake up missing a leg.' :D
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5439.msg72436#msg72436 date=1181661547] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Well, you could always just look at him and be like, 'You know what, you're right. A word of advice, don't upset me or you may wake up missing a leg.' :D
Hi Knfoc, But in a way, how can we argue that we are NOT cannibals when in fact we DO eat the body and blood of Jesus Christ?
Well, your first answer, that it is 'spiritual food' is dead on. Now, for someone who lacks any sort of spirituality, that sort of answer makes no sense. When they hear 'We eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ' immediately they associate it with a physical body and liquid blood. They cannot fathom what it means to partake of Christ for the nourishment of our spirits. That is why, I, personally, do not know how you can respond to someone with that sort of mentality.
Dear me, that old allegation! It was made as far back as Roman times, for exactly the reason your acquaintance made it, Vassilios. Κηφᾶς has given the right answer. We do not know how the bread and wine become the body and the blood, but they do, and they are spiritual food for us.
How true it is that there is nothing new under the sun!
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5439.msg72438#msg72438 date=1181662330] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Well, your first answer, that it is 'spiritual food' is dead on. Now, for someone who lacks any sort of spirituality, that sort of answer makes no sense. When they hear 'We eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ' immediately they associate it with a physical body and liquid blood. They cannot fathom what it means to partake of Christ for the nourishment of our spirits. That is why, I, personally, do not know how you can respond to someone with that sort of mentality.
The Holy Communion is spiritual food that is in fact in the form of physical entities. We take bread and wine as these ingredients that will be transformed into the Holy Body and Blood.
Cannibalism is the eating of human flesh and blood. We partake of the Holy Body of Christ, we do NOT eat His Divinity. We only eat His Holy Body. So, for them, this therefore constitutes cannibalism.
My friend wasnt asking or suggesting anything to offend me- not at all - in fact, on the contrary, i feel bad as he REALLY wished to know more - as if he was hungry for information on this.
So, yes, it is spiritual food, but if its spiritual food, why then do we take it in physical form? Even to the extent we should be fasting BEFORE communion so our stomachs are empty of any other food (physical food) before we partake of the Holy Body and Blood.
Now, we believe it IS the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. True Body and True Blood, taken for the remission of sins. Then how can we answer the above question: "Is Communion is a form of Cannibalism" ??
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5439.msg72449#msg72449 date=1181674021] Now, we believe it IS the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. True Body and True Blood, taken for the remission of sins. Then how can we answer the above question: "Is Communion is a form of Cannibalism" ??
as i was taught, we don't belive in the body & blood change physcily into real flesh and blood. u can never prove in any lifetime that this would happend (except in the mircle i heard about). but there is term for this trasformation that explains everything.....unlike the Catholics who belive that if u take that body and blood and do tests on it u'll find that it changed in real flesh and blood.
vassilios, don't attack me yet....atleast till i get the right term and concept am talking about from my priest.
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5439.msg72454#msg72454 date=1181677058] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
actually i think the term i was looking for is, "substantiate" since it means: 'to give substance or form to'
So the bread and wine take the form of the body and blood but they are still in their own substances bread and wine.
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5439.msg72454#msg72454 date=1181677058] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
Do we reject this term?? "Transubstantiation" ?
Someone here hasnt explained what the difference is between Cannabalism and Communion ? Protestants do not have to worry about this as they do NOT take the Body and Blood of Christ. Catholics and Orthodox do in fact. So, how can we answer this? Saying that it is spiritual food - OK, but it is in "physical form".
[quote author=vassilios link=topic=5439.msg72456#msg72456 date=1181678474] Do we reject this term?? "Transubstantiation" ?
no...becasue it means 'an act or instance of transubstantiating or being transubstantiated' which no one can ever prove as i said before.
Someone here hasnt explained what the difference is between Cannabalism and Communion ? Protestants do not have to worry about this as they do NOT take the Body and Blood of Christ. Catholics and Orthodox do in fact. So, how can we answer this?
Cannibalism: the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being.
Communion: Is a sacrament that Jesus Christ instituted with His divine power for us to partake of His sacred body and blood to be purified. More info can be found here: Sacrament of the Eucharist
Saying that it is spiritual food - OK, but it is in "physical form".
that's what am saying. in physical form, they still bread and blood.
I actually asked a speaker in a youth meeting this question, but i might be paraphrasing him wrong. The answer he gave me was that although it is physically bread and wine, its essence is divine and grants us the grace of God. Thus it is not cannibalism because we do not eat human flesh. I'll try to ask more about this in church.
[quote author=EpNomos EnTaio link=topic=5439.msg72463#msg72463 date=1181690273] I actually asked a speaker in a youth meeting this question, but i might be paraphrasing him wrong. The answer he gave me was that although it is physically bread and wine, its essence is divine and grants us the grace of God. Thus it is not cannibalism because we do not eat human flesh. I'll try to ask more about this in church.
No.. how can this be? Iqbal has said this time and time again: We do not eat the "divine" body of Christ, we eat His Holy Body.
Nem pi Soma Ethouab. Nem pek esnof etaiyot.
No where in the liturgy does it say we partake of His Divine Body.
Some differences between cannibalism and the holy Eucharist:
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul etc.
[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5439.msg72483#msg72483 date=1181736984] Some differences between cannibalism and the holy Eucharist:
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul etc.
Great answer Orthodox11, Its perfect.
(Just FYI: we do NOT eat Divinity!!! Ouff!!!! its the upteenth time we've mentioned this on this forum)
[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5439.msg72483#msg72483 date=1181736984] Some differences between cannibalism and the holy Eucharist:
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul etc.
actually i wanted to add that Christ gave us His holy, resurrected body, as it was said above, to grant us the ability to also one day resurrect with Him.
Definition of cannibalism 1. the eating of human flesh by another human being. 2. the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of its own kind. 3. the ceremonial eating of human flesh or parts of the human body for magical or religious purposes, as to acquire the power or skill of a person recently killed. 4. the act of pecking flesh from a live fowl by a member of the same flock. 5. the removal of parts, equipment, assets, or employees from one product, item, or business in order to use them in another. 6. the acquisition and absorption of smaller companies by a large corporation or conglomerate.
As stated earlier then comparison made was a very good way of explaining the communion I ll add the following story by the desert fathers I think some might be familiar with it already if I am wrong
Once a venerable monk of old age had strayed by believing that the communion was not important and was only a rite he said it does not change to blood and body and thus he only practised it as a ritual God decided to correct him so when he had gathered with the other desert father to share in the mystery of communion he saw the following wonders. As he was with everyone else preparing to receive the communion he had the same erred thoughts and behold he as abouna was praying and breaking the bread in the liturgy the old monk saw an angel decent onto the altar with a sword. On the altar instead of the bread was a babe which the angel incised, and behold when abuna came to administer the communion he saw flesh with being handed to him and as he took the communion he cried out say I believe and immediately the flesh turned to bread… then he heard a voice telling that God knows man cannot eat flesh and drink blood but the mystery by which all are cleansed is as is spoken of in the holy book and is practised as the Lord administered to the apostles. It means what is said and is a mystery. Our God wouldn’t put us through the moral eating flesh and drinking blood instead we eat bread and rink wine but in essence it is what it is the pure body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
i tried to find the exact story but i couldnt but i ve read and i think the above is accurate might be a bit hard to believe.
wow! haha well as i was reading the forum i thought of the exact story that karas7 told, i heard it once in youth meeting i think, well anyway
Communion is truly Christ's body and blood, not a symbol and as mentioned before, not his "divinity"
instead of the bread and wine being changed so we see that it is really flesh and blood it keeps this figure so we are able to bear to eat it, although this is the holiest of holy, God knew as in the story that it would be much easier for all of us as when Christ offered the first communion that it would stay in the shape of bread and wine but really be the body and blood of Christ.
So in a way we aren't being savages, and you know going through with the whole ritual of killing someone ripping them to shreds and tearing at their limbs lol but its a sacred and holy gift given by Christ himself on holy Thursday and should in no way even though this is a very complex matter be mistaken for the paganism of Cannibalism
this is an important topic and many times we as christains find this as oppostion to our faith. after submitting the above story i still had in my mind to exactly where i had read also to validate waht i said so all in i finally found it exactly where it came from, the desert fathers of course, and here it is in the form orginally told i think still pretty accurate.
This is what Abba Daniel, the Pharanite, said, 'Our Father Abba Arsenius told us of an inhabitant of Scetis, of notable life and of simple faith; through his naivete' he was deceived and said, "The bread which we receive is not really the body of Christ, but a symbol." Two old men having learnt that he had uttered this saying, knowing that he was outstanding in his way of life, knew that he had not spoken through malice, but through simplicity. So they came to find him and said, "Father, we have heard a proposition contrary to the faith on the part of someone who says that the bread which we receive is not really the body of Christ, but a symbol." The old man said, "It is I who have said that." Then the old men exhorted him saying, "Do not hold this position, Father, but hold one in conformity with that which the catholic Church has given us. We believe, for our part, that the bread itself is the body of Christ and that the cup itself is his blood and this in all truth and not a symbol. But as in the beginning, God formed man in his image, taking the dust of the earth, without anyone being able to say that it is not the image of God, even though it is not seen to be so; thus it is with the bread of which he said that it is his body; and so we believe that it is really the body of Christ." The old man said to them, "As long as I have not been persuaded by the thing itself, I shall not be fully convinced." So they said, "Let us pray God about this mystery throughout the whole of this week and we believe that God will reveal it to us." The old man received this saying with joy and he prayed in these words, "Lord, you know that it is not through malice that I do not believe and so that I may not err through ignorance, reveal this mystery to me, Lord Jesus Christ." The old men returned to their cells and they also prayed God, saying, "Lord Jesus Christ, reveal this mystery to the old man, that he may believe and not lose his reward." God heard both the prayers. At the end of the week they came to church on 23 Sunday and sat all three on the same mat, the old man in the middle. Then their eyes were opened and when the bread was placed on the holy table, there appeared as it were a little child to these three alone. And when the priest put out his hand to break the bread, behold an angel descended from heaven with a sword and poured the child's blood into the chalice. When the priest cut the bread into small pieces, the angel also cut the child in pieces. When they drew near to receive the sacred elements the old man alone received a morsel of bloody flesh. Seeing this he was afraid and cried out, "Lord, I believe that this bread is your flesh and this chalice your blood." Immediately the flesh, which he held in his hand, became bread, according to the mystery and he took it, giving thanks to God. Then the old men said to him, "God knows human nature and that man cannot eat raw flesh and that is why he has changed his body into bread and his blood into wine, for those who receive it in faith." Then they gave thanks to God for the old man, because he had allowed him not to lose the reward of his labour. So all three returned with joy to their own cells.'
Comments
Well, you could always just look at him and be like, 'You know what, you're right. A word of advice, don't upset me or you may wake up missing a leg.' :D
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Well, you could always just look at him and be like, 'You know what, you're right. A word of advice, don't upset me or you may wake up missing a leg.' :D
Hi Knfoc,
But in a way, how can we argue that we are NOT cannibals when in fact we DO eat the body and blood of Jesus Christ?
Well, your first answer, that it is 'spiritual food' is dead on. Now, for someone who lacks any sort of spirituality, that sort of answer makes no sense. When they hear 'We eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ' immediately they associate it with a physical body and liquid blood. They cannot fathom what it means to partake of Christ for the nourishment of our spirits. That is why, I, personally, do not know how you can respond to someone with that sort of mentality.
Dear me, that old allegation! It was made as far back as Roman times, for exactly the reason your acquaintance made it, Vassilios. Κηφᾶς has given the right answer. We do not know how the bread and wine become the body and the blood, but they do, and they are spiritual food for us.
How true it is that there is nothing new under the sun!
In Christ,
John
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Well, your first answer, that it is 'spiritual food' is dead on. Now, for someone who lacks any sort of spirituality, that sort of answer makes no sense. When they hear 'We eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ' immediately they associate it with a physical body and liquid blood. They cannot fathom what it means to partake of Christ for the nourishment of our spirits. That is why, I, personally, do not know how you can respond to someone with that sort of mentality.
The Holy Communion is spiritual food that is in fact in the form of physical entities. We take bread and wine as these ingredients that will be transformed into the Holy Body and Blood.
Cannibalism is the eating of human flesh and blood. We partake of the Holy Body of Christ, we do NOT eat His Divinity. We only eat His Holy Body. So, for them, this therefore constitutes cannibalism.
My friend wasnt asking or suggesting anything to offend me- not at all - in fact, on the contrary, i feel bad as he REALLY wished to know more - as if he was hungry for information on this.
So, yes, it is spiritual food, but if its spiritual food, why then do we take it in physical form? Even to the extent we should be fasting BEFORE communion so our stomachs are empty of any other food (physical food) before we partake of the Holy Body and Blood.
Now, we believe it IS the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. True Body and True Blood, taken for the remission of sins. Then how can we answer the above question: "Is Communion is a form of Cannibalism" ??
Thanks,
Now, we believe it IS the Holy Body and Blood of Christ. True Body and True Blood, taken for the remission of sins. Then how can we answer the above question: "Is Communion is a form of Cannibalism" ??
as i was taught, we don't belive in the body & blood change physcily into real flesh and blood. u can never prove in any lifetime that this would happend (except in the mircle i heard about). but there is term for this trasformation that explains everything.....unlike the Catholics who belive that if u take that body and blood and do tests on it u'll find that it changed in real flesh and blood.
vassilios, don't attack me yet....atleast till i get the right term and concept am talking about from my priest.
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
actually i think the term i was looking for is, "substantiate"
since it means: 'to give substance or form to'
So the bread and wine take the form of the body and blood but they are still in their own substances bread and wine.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
As far as I know, the Church has no term for the transformation of the bread and wine to the Body and Blood of Christ. It is a mystery and one the Church has made no attempt to explain. It has simply and humbly accepted it as such. The RCC has developed a term for the change which they call transubstantiation. It is a concept that the Church rejects.
Do we reject this term?? "Transubstantiation" ?
Someone here hasnt explained what the difference is between Cannabalism and Communion ? Protestants do not have to worry about this as they do NOT take the Body and Blood of Christ. Catholics and Orthodox do in fact. So, how can we answer this?
Saying that it is spiritual food - OK, but it is in "physical form".
Do we reject this term?? "Transubstantiation" ?
no...becasue it means 'an act or instance of transubstantiating or being transubstantiated'
which no one can ever prove as i said before. Cannibalism: the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being.
Communion: Is a sacrament that Jesus Christ instituted with His divine power for us to partake of His sacred body and blood to be purified. More info can be found here: Sacrament of the Eucharist
that's what am saying. in physical form, they still bread and blood.
I actually asked a speaker in a youth meeting this question, but i might be paraphrasing him wrong. The answer he gave me was that although it is physically bread and wine, its essence is divine and grants us the grace of God. Thus it is not cannibalism because we do not eat human flesh. I'll try to ask more about this in church.
No.. how can this be? Iqbal has said this time and time again: We do not eat the "divine" body of Christ, we eat His Holy Body.
Nem pi Soma Ethouab.
Nem pek esnof etaiyot.
No where in the liturgy does it say we partake of His Divine Body.
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body
Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed
Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life
Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine
Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul
etc.
Some differences between cannibalism and the holy Eucharist:
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body
Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed
Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life
Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine
Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul
etc.
Great answer Orthodox11,
Its perfect.
(Just FYI: we do NOT eat Divinity!!! Ouff!!!! its the upteenth time we've mentioned this on this forum)
Some differences between cannibalism and the holy Eucharist:
Mortal fallen body vs. eternal resurrected/transfigured Body
Consuming another person vs. partaking in that which is never consumed
Loss of life of the person eaten vs. partaking of the Giver of Life
Flesh and blood vs. Flesh in the form of bread and Blood in the form of wine
Can lead to illness vs. healing of body and soul
etc.
actually i wanted to add that Christ gave us His holy, resurrected body, as it was said above, to grant us the ability to also one day resurrect with Him.
I did not intend to say that we eat divinity, i meant that we, in partaking of the holy communion, are granted God's life-giving grace.
1. the eating of human flesh by another human being.
2. the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of its own kind.
3. the ceremonial eating of human flesh or parts of the human body for magical or religious purposes, as to acquire the power or skill of a person recently killed.
4. the act of pecking flesh from a live fowl by a member of the same flock.
5. the removal of parts, equipment, assets, or employees from one product, item, or business in order to use them in another.
6. the acquisition and absorption of smaller companies by a large corporation or conglomerate.
As stated earlier then comparison made was a very good way of explaining the communion I ll add the following story by the desert fathers I think some might be familiar with it already if I am wrong
Once a venerable monk of old age had strayed by believing that the communion was not important and was only a rite he said it does not change to blood and body and thus he only practised it as a ritual God decided to correct him so when he had gathered with the other desert father to share in the mystery of communion he saw the following wonders. As he was with everyone else preparing to receive the communion he had the same erred thoughts and behold he as abouna was praying and breaking the bread in the liturgy the old monk saw an angel decent onto the altar with a sword. On the altar instead of the bread was a babe which the angel incised, and behold when abuna came to administer the communion he saw flesh with being handed to him and as he took the communion he cried out say I believe and immediately the flesh turned to bread… then he heard a voice telling that God knows man cannot eat flesh and drink blood but the mystery by which all are cleansed is as is spoken of in the holy book and is practised as the Lord administered to the apostles. It means what is said and is a mystery. Our God wouldn’t put us through the moral eating flesh and drinking blood instead we eat bread and rink wine but in essence it is what it is the pure body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
i tried to find the exact story but i couldnt but i ve read and i think the above is accurate might be a bit hard to believe.
Communion is truly Christ's body and blood, not a symbol and as mentioned before, not his "divinity"
instead of the bread and wine being changed so we see that it is really flesh and blood it keeps this figure so we are able to bear to eat it, although this is the holiest of holy, God knew as in the story that it would be much easier for all of us as when Christ offered the first communion that it would stay in the shape of bread and wine but really be the body and blood of Christ.
So in a way we aren't being savages, and you know going through with the whole ritual of killing someone ripping them to shreds and tearing at their limbs lol but its a sacred and holy gift given by Christ himself on holy Thursday and should in no way even though this is a very complex matter be mistaken for the paganism of Cannibalism
this is an important topic and many times we as christains find this as oppostion to our faith. after submitting the above story i still had in my mind to exactly where i had read also to validate waht i said so all in i finally found it exactly where it came from, the desert fathers of course, and here it is in the form orginally told i think still pretty accurate.
This is what Abba Daniel, the Pharanite, said, 'Our
Father Abba Arsenius told us of an inhabitant of Scetis, of
notable life and of simple faith; through his naivete' he was
deceived and said, "The bread which we receive is not really
the body of Christ, but a symbol." Two old men having
learnt that he had uttered this saying, knowing that he was
outstanding in his way of life, knew that he had not spoken
through malice, but through simplicity. So they came to find
him and said, "Father, we have heard a proposition contrary
to the faith on the part of someone who says that the bread
which we receive is not really the body of Christ, but a
symbol." The old man said, "It is I who have said that." Then
the old men exhorted him saying, "Do not hold this position,
Father, but hold one in conformity with that which the
catholic Church has given us. We believe, for our part, that
the bread itself is the body of Christ and that the cup itself is
his blood and this in all truth and not a symbol. But as in the
beginning, God formed man in his image, taking the dust of
the earth, without anyone being able to say that it is not the
image of God, even though it is not seen to be so; thus it is
with the bread of which he said that it is his body; and so we
believe that it is really the body of Christ." The old man said
to them, "As long as I have not been persuaded by the thing
itself, I shall not be fully convinced." So they said, "Let us
pray God about this mystery throughout the whole of this
week and we believe that God will reveal it to us." The old
man received this saying with joy and he prayed in these
words, "Lord, you know that it is not through malice that I
do not believe and so that I may not err through ignorance,
reveal this mystery to me, Lord Jesus Christ." The old men
returned to their cells and they also prayed God, saying,
"Lord Jesus Christ, reveal this mystery to the old man, that
he may believe and not lose his reward." God heard both the
prayers. At the end of the week they came to church on
23
Sunday and sat all three on the same mat, the old man in the
middle. Then their eyes were opened and when the bread
was placed on the holy table, there appeared as it were a
little child to these three alone. And when the priest put out
his hand to break the bread, behold an angel descended from
heaven with a sword and poured the child's blood into the
chalice. When the priest cut the bread into small pieces, the
angel also cut the child in pieces. When they drew near to
receive the sacred elements the old man alone received a
morsel of bloody flesh. Seeing this he was afraid and cried
out, "Lord, I believe that this bread is your flesh and this
chalice your blood." Immediately the flesh, which he held in
his hand, became bread, according to the mystery and he
took it, giving thanks to God. Then the old men said to him,
"God knows human nature and that man cannot eat raw flesh
and that is why he has changed his body into bread and his
blood into wine, for those who receive it in faith." Then they
gave thanks to God for the old man, because he had allowed
him not to lose the reward of his labour. So all three
returned with joy to their own cells.'
i hope this benefits everyone God bless.