Singing hymns is considerd one of the highest forms of praise. Just as David the prophet says in the psalms a myriad of times "praise the lord with a joyful song". So hymnology was actually originated way before chrisitainty as even the jews obviously sang praises to god. Also As you have recognized in your introductory post "homosexuality and orthodoxy" the coptic orthodox church is one of the oldest and least changed faiths to this day. It has changed very little over time, keeping its original faith, and practicese exactly or almost exactly the same. Therefore there are no modern hymns because the hymns of the present day coptic church are those that have been passed down through church history. However there are many spiritual songs (not used in actual church services ex: mass) but can be added to, changed, and even removed in some cases. Hope that helps
well I'm glad your looking so much into the Coptic Church, God bless.
this is a subject i could help on. the hymns could originate before the religion it self started. many of our hymns are tunes and melodies taken from pharonic practices, but the words of course are changed to fit the church. also there is a bit of a large selection of hymns in our church that we share with the Greek orthodox church. because in history Greek was such a popular language spoken by many scholars and people alike, the liturgy and it's hymns had many Greek responses.
There are many seasons in the church, not weather but you know, having to do with what is going on at the time. each of these seasons has hymns especially for this time period. sort of like how you sing jingle bells or o holy night wen we're near Christmas, the hymns are closely related to the stuff going on at the time.
well if you have any more questions just post and umm here is an article that should help you more to understand the hymns. its under Coptic Hymns in worship.
[quote author=desertnurse link=topic=5452.msg72593#msg72593 date=1182046998] What role to hymns play in the Coptic church and where did they originate? Also, are there more "modern" hymns?
Taylor :)
this is a great question Taylor and i would lovve to answer it since i am in fact a hymn freak. i agree with what was said before about our Coptic hymns. except for that Greek hymns part. our church used greek as a language to write hymns in (more of response for ppl to understand than full prayers), but not have their actual tunes.
now to try to sumarize all of our hymns and there season, u have to first look at our liturgical srvices...which would take a while to write. but in a short list, we have these tunes:
Annual – (All annual days and other specific days) Kiahky – (The tune of the Coptic month of Kiahk – the Advent) Lenten – (The Holy Lent) Palm Sunday – (The Palm Sunday Festive tune which is also used in both feasts of the Cross) The Etribi – (its basically the mourning tune for Holy week…but origin of the word, Etribi, refers to a small city where this tune was composed in…also we prefer to call it that way instead of the sad tune because in while we’re sad in holy week, we’re also glad for gaining our salvation at the end of that holy week) Festive – (which is the tune that is used in all the festive days of the year)
these are our main tunes for the changable hymns and response in our services. Now when i say services, that means Vespers Praises, Vespers, Midnight Praises, Matins, Holy Liturgy, and the other yearly services.
We have many hymns that are just so beautiful to listen and attend to. u can check for yourself here on Tasbeha.org. after all the site is called Tasbeha.org which means praise...in arabic..:). Tasbeha.org have also many hymn texts which u can find here: Coptic Hymns Lyrics Library
Taylor, please....if any question about his subject, ask....there is many people here who would really provide info about our Coptic Church hymns.....including me.... ;D
As for the exact days for the feast, we use the Coptic calendar which the same one used by the ancient Egyptians. Most of the feasts have exact dates except the events that revolve around Resurrection. the way that the resurrection feast is calculated is upon the Passover of the Jews. the feast have to be the Sunday after the Passover as it says in the writings of the Apostles and the bible. than from there, u count back a week, which is Palm Sunday and Holy Week. Than count back 7 weeks to get the beginning of lent. than count back some days to get to Jonah's fast. than after Resurrecion, you have the Fifty Holy days (count forward fifty days). the 40th day of those 50 days is the feast of the AScention (as it says in the bible) and on the 50th day is the feast of Pentecost (i.e. the 50th day). than from the monday after that Pentecost untill the feast of the Apostles (i.e. feast of St. Peter & St. Paul - also a set date according to the coptic calendar).
[quote author=desertnurse link=topic=5452.msg72612#msg72612 date=1182059393] What could I expect to find at a Coptic service?
wow. i guess ur visiting a coptic church soon (if u havn't already) Anyways here is a clear picture of my church (Church of St. Mark, Jersey City, NJ):
(taken during the Holy Fifty Days)
if u see, the church is divided it to 3 parts, where the people stand, the deacons , and the Altar. now to discribe everything, it would be very hard but i'll keep it breif. the people's part is divided as u c. the left side is for men, the right if for women. but it's not that strict really....expecially here in the US. we welcome any vistors anytime...of course with the knowlegde of the priest of the church.
What should I wear?
just a normal formal clothing.
How long is a typical service? Where should I sit??
A Typical service is the Eucharist Liturgy which consists of Vespers and its praise from the night before. Than Midnight praises. Than the second day, there is Matins, and than the Liturgy (which consists of parts to). Vespers and Matins are very similar – they can take about an hour each. Midnight praise can take from 1 ½ hours up to 3, 4 hours…depends how much long hymns u say. And the liturgy is about 1 1/2-3 hours. Now please don’t be frightened by all these hours, :)….if you really understand the whole liturgy in it’s depth, it will change you every single time ur there.
[quote author=desertnurse link=topic=5452.msg72615#msg72615 date=1182060226] Truly, this is one of the most fascinating faiths I have ever encountered.
great to hear.
Are there certain colors used or other ways that give different feelings to each season?
Noramlly the color red/burgundy is used in the annual time. showing the royelty of Christ and His bride the church. In Palm Sunday the church is decorated with palms. In Holy Week the black banners, Altar curtains, and Altar covers are put up instead of the normal red ones. From the 12th hour of Good Friday untill the Pentecost, the white banners, Altar curtains, and Altar covers are put up.
[quote author=desertnurse link=topic=5452.msg72623#msg72623 date=1182064513] How did pagan Egypt influence the Coptic Church?
The Coptic faith was not influenced by the pagan belief but it was influenced by the Egyptian civilization. We are after all, Copts, Egyptians. The calendar which we still basically use is one of the most sufficient ones that were developed by the ancient Egyptians….not specifically Pagans. The Coptic language itself is the old Egyptian language but only in Greek-like words.
hey Taylor u should visit the church one time im sure ull love it!!! heres our church's website its full of a lot of info on our church and even live services if u want to hear anything live in church... i like how ur really interested... if u dont mind can u share with us how u were introduced to our church?
actually....i just thought of the best idea for u Taylor. Here on tasbeha.org there is broadcasting from the beginning of vespers praise to the liturgy the second day. (sat-sun) here is the Webcast Schedule. The Sundays' liturgy is broadcasted in video and that one is prayer in Coptic and English that u can watch and understand a little of what goes on before actually visiting a coptic church. also it's better because mostly u get to see what goes on in the Altar which normally if ur visiting our church, and ur not an Oriental Orthodx, u can't enter. trust me, u'll like it.
Our Coptic brothers and sisters have done a wonderful job providing you with the Coptic variants, so to say; but what you can only experience in person is the sheer joy of a Coptic service - nothing like it in the world - absolutely uplifting - but full of the Spirit of the Lord.
Comments
Hope that helps
-peter
well I'm glad your looking so much into the Coptic Church, God bless.
this is a subject i could help on. the hymns could originate before the religion it self started. many of our hymns are tunes and melodies taken from pharonic practices, but the words of course are changed to fit the church. also there is a bit of a large selection of hymns in our church that we share with the Greek orthodox church. because in history Greek was such a popular language spoken by many scholars and people alike, the liturgy and it's hymns had many Greek responses.
There are many seasons in the church, not weather but you know, having to do with what is going on at the time. each of these seasons has hymns especially for this time period. sort of like how you sing jingle bells or o holy night wen we're near Christmas, the hymns are closely related to the stuff going on at the time.
well if you have any more questions just post and umm here is an article that should help you more to understand the hymns. its under Coptic Hymns in worship.
http://tasbeha.org/content/articles/
Tell me about the seasons of the Church. In western Christianity, they are referred to collectively as the Church year or the Liturgical Year.
Taylor
What role to hymns play in the Coptic church and where did they originate? Also, are there more "modern" hymns?
Taylor :)
this is a great question Taylor and i would lovve to answer it since i am in fact a hymn freak. i agree with what was said before about our Coptic hymns. except for that Greek hymns part. our church used greek as a language to write hymns in (more of response for ppl to understand than full prayers), but not have their actual tunes.
now to try to sumarize all of our hymns and there season, u have to first look at our liturgical srvices...which would take a while to write. but in a short list, we have these tunes:
Annual – (All annual days and other specific days)
Kiahky – (The tune of the Coptic month of Kiahk – the Advent)
Lenten – (The Holy Lent)
Palm Sunday – (The Palm Sunday Festive tune which is also used in both feasts of the Cross)
The Etribi – (its basically the mourning tune for Holy week…but origin of the word, Etribi, refers to a small city where this tune was composed in…also we prefer to call it that way instead of the sad tune because in while we’re sad in holy week, we’re also glad for gaining our salvation at the end of that holy week)
Festive – (which is the tune that is used in all the festive days of the year)
these are our main tunes for the changable hymns and response in our services.
Now when i say services, that means Vespers Praises, Vespers, Midnight Praises, Matins, Holy Liturgy, and the other yearly services.
We have many hymns that are just so beautiful to listen and attend to. u can check for yourself here on Tasbeha.org. after all the site is called Tasbeha.org which means praise...in arabic..:). Tasbeha.org have also many hymn texts which u can find here:
Coptic Hymns Lyrics Library
Taylor, please....if any question about his subject, ask....there is many people here who would really provide info about our Coptic Church hymns.....including me.... ;D
For instance the Western Calender looks like this:
Advent starts the forth Sunday before Christmas
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Rok_liturgiczny_-_Liturgical_year.jpg
Taylor
Taylor
What does the liturgical calender look like?
For instance the Western Calender looks like this:
Advent starts the forth Sunday before Christmas
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Rok_liturgiczny_-_Liturgical_year.jpg
here is some info about the Coptic Calendar:
The Coptic Calendar of Martyrs
And the feasts can be found here:
Coptic Fasts & Feasts 2007 A.D. / 1723–1724 A.M.
As for the exact days for the feast, we use the Coptic calendar which the same one used by the ancient Egyptians. Most of the feasts have exact dates except the events that revolve around Resurrection.
the way that the resurrection feast is calculated is upon the Passover of the Jews. the feast have to be the Sunday after the Passover as it says in the writings of the Apostles and the bible. than from there, u count back a week, which is Palm Sunday and Holy Week. Than count back 7 weeks to get the beginning of lent. than count back some days to get to Jonah's fast.
than after Resurrecion, you have the Fifty Holy days (count forward fifty days). the 40th day of those 50 days is the feast of the AScention (as it says in the bible) and on the 50th day is the feast of Pentecost (i.e. the 50th day). than from the monday after that Pentecost untill the feast of the Apostles (i.e. feast of St. Peter & St. Paul - also a set date according to the coptic calendar).
was that clear at all....... ::)
Are there certain colors used or other ways that give different feelings to each season?
Taylor
What could I expect to find at a Coptic service?
wow. i guess ur visiting a coptic church soon (if u havn't already)
Anyways here is a clear picture of my church (Church of St. Mark, Jersey City, NJ):
(taken during the Holy Fifty Days)
if u see, the church is divided it to 3 parts, where the people stand, the deacons , and the Altar. now to discribe everything, it would be very hard but i'll keep it breif. the people's part is divided as u c. the left side is for men, the right if for women. but it's not that strict really....expecially here in the US. we welcome any vistors anytime...of course with the knowlegde of the priest of the church. just a normal formal clothing.
A Typical service is the Eucharist Liturgy which consists of Vespers and its praise from the night before. Than Midnight praises. Than the second day, there is Matins, and than the Liturgy (which consists of parts to). Vespers and Matins are very similar – they can take about an hour each. Midnight praise can take from 1 ½ hours up to 3, 4 hours…depends how much long hymns u say.
And the liturgy is about 1 1/2-3 hours.
Now please don’t be frightened by all these hours, :)….if you really understand the whole liturgy in it’s depth, it will change you every single time ur there.
hope i helped......
Truly, this is one of the most fascinating faiths I have ever encountered.
great to hear. Noramlly the color red/burgundy is used in the annual time. showing the royelty of Christ and His bride the church.
In Palm Sunday the church is decorated with palms.
In Holy Week the black banners, Altar curtains, and Altar covers are put up instead of the normal red ones.
From the 12th hour of Good Friday untill the Pentecost, the white banners, Altar curtains, and Altar covers are put up.
How did pagan Egypt influence the Coptic Church?
Taylor
How did pagan Egypt influence the Coptic Church?
The Coptic faith was not influenced by the pagan belief but it was influenced by the Egyptian civilization. We are after all, Copts, Egyptians. The calendar which we still basically use is one of the most sufficient ones that were developed by the ancient Egyptians….not specifically Pagans. The Coptic language itself is the old Egyptian language but only in Greek-like words.
i like how ur really interested... if u dont mind can u share with us how u were introduced to our church?
http://www.stathanasius.miss.on.coptorthodox.ca/
God Bless,
Enough
here is the Webcast Schedule.
The Sundays' liturgy is broadcasted in video and that one is prayer in Coptic and English that u can watch and understand a little of what goes on before actually visiting a coptic church. also it's better because mostly u get to see what goes on in the Altar which normally if ur visiting our church, and ur not an Oriental Orthodx, u can't enter. trust me, u'll like it.
Some excellent advice here.
Although she is Eastern orthodox, what Frederica Mathewes=Greene write here, will help prepare you: http://www.frederica.com/12-things/
Our Coptic brothers and sisters have done a wonderful job providing you with the Coptic variants, so to say; but what you can only experience in person is the sheer joy of a Coptic service - nothing like it in the world - absolutely uplifting - but full of the Spirit of the Lord.
In Christ,
John