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Martyrdom
Sup,
I just have a question about martyrdom,
In order for you to get martyred do u have to consent to being christian and then get killed, or could a muslim person for example just come up from behind (knowing ur christian) and kill u without u saying anything.
Like, for example, lets say if god forbid muslims put an atomic bomb in the Us, and people die, are they considered martyrs if they are christian, or not. Im not sure because they didnt consent to it, and they just died unwillingly.
thx
I just have a question about martyrdom,
In order for you to get martyred do u have to consent to being christian and then get killed, or could a muslim person for example just come up from behind (knowing ur christian) and kill u without u saying anything.
Like, for example, lets say if god forbid muslims put an atomic bomb in the Us, and people die, are they considered martyrs if they are christian, or not. Im not sure because they didnt consent to it, and they just died unwillingly.
thx
Comments
Thats just a big guess.
What do you think??
Taylor
sorry if its confuseing
It is my firm belief that God takes us when we are at our spiritual peak, that is to say, when we won't get any better spiritually than we already are. God is always in control and does not permit things to happen that would go against His perfect plan. As such, in the case of a person who dies 'prematurely', I don't believe that such an event ever does occur. A person dies when their time on earth is up, as determined by God.
As for being a martyr, I would have to agree with what Taylor said. A martyr is a person who suffers persecution and often death as a result of the Faith.
Sup,
I just have a question about martyrdom,
In order for you to get martyred do u have to consent to being christian and then get killed, or could a muslim person for example just come up from behind (knowing ur christian) and kill u without u saying anything.
Like, for example, lets say if god forbid muslims put an atomic bomb in the Us, and people die, are they considered martyrs if they are christian, or not. Im not sure because they didnt consent to it, and they just died unwillingly.
thx
In order for you to be a martyr you have to die willingly. You were saying that if someone killed you just because you were christian and didn't ask you to convert or whatever, than no. You're not a martyr. Ya, you died for the sake of christ but unwillingly. So that's not considered martyrdom. However, If that person came up to you and was like are you christian and you respond yes and die, then you are a martyr.
Martyrs should not, I think, seek what comes to them as martyrdom - in that sense, as in others, like Our Lord, they should pray that the cup passes them by - but willingly drink it to the full if it does not.
One of the problems with some radical Muslim ideas of martyrdom is that it turns it into an act of self-will. For Christians it is obedience to the will of God that matters.
In Christ,
Anglian
Correct me if I'm wrong John, but I believe that there are stories in the Synaxarium of saints who willingly sought out martyrdom. In some cases, they had visions of an angel telling them to go to a particular city to face martyrdom.
I'm not sure how possible it is to define such a thing. There is one characteristic of martyrdom that seems to me to be essential though: self-denial (for which reason monasticism is often called a form of martyrdom).
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5514.msg73686#msg73686 date=1183404602]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Correct me if I'm wrong John, but I believe that there are stories in the Synaxarium of saints who willingly sought out martyrdom. In some cases, they had visions of an angel telling them to go to a particular city to face martyrdom.
I think you are right, although I am never sure whether what is being said is that they met their fate willingly - or went out to seek it; I suspect there is a difference - but as Orthodox11 points out, it may be difficult to define.
At any rate, all lesser mortals can do is to admire their spirit and their Faith - and to hope that if one ever found oneself in that situation, one would find, from Him, the courage to bear witness.
In Christ,
John
At any rate, all lesser mortals can do is to admire their spirit and their Faith - and to hope that if one ever found oneself in that situation, one would find, from Him, the courage to bear witness.
As my Spiritual Father once said: "If you are ready to receive such a gift [i.e. the crown of martyrdom] God will grant it to you."
I believe the Church gives the term Martyr to whosoever incurs death by virtue of their faith, whether because they have been targeted involuntarily, or whether they have boldly created the opportunity for themselves by going before Kings and Emperors to publicly pronounce their faith.
Many of the Martyrs of the Church showed some rather strong determination to be martyred. According to a particular account (there are ultimately 4) of the Martyrdom of Papa Abba Peter of Alexandria (the "Seal of the Matyrs"), Alexandrian Christians were rioting outside of St. Abba Peter's place of imprisonment, such that his executors could not get to him else they would have been destroyed by the unruly mob. Nevertheless, St. Abba Peter practically offered himself to his executioners by allowing them to come to him secretly through a hole in the back wall in order to avoid the mob's attention. So, as you can see, that is quite some determination.
If God wills that a "candidate" (for lack of a better word) for martyrdom be spared, then it will be inevitable. Such was the case with Papa Abba Demetrius ("the Vinedresser"). Abba St. Demetrius in fact fled the Decian persecution, and was hence obliged to respond to his congregation's disheartened perception of him as a coward (fleeing persecution and the prospect of martyrdom back in those days was quite the "sin"). Abba St Demetrius replies to their accusations by recounting how he had anticipated and prepared himself to be martyred on two occasions, only to be spared by divine providence. The account he presents of the circumstances surrounding his escape in the second situation seem quite comical:
Then, having understood why they [i.e. those who had come to rescue him] had come, I cried out, begging and beseeching them to go away and leave me alone. If they wanted to do something good, they ought to waylay the ones who abducted me and cut off my head themselves. While I was shouting such things, as those who are my companions and partners in all things know, they lifted me up by force. I began to stretch myself back on the floor, but they, having grabbed hold of my hands and dragging my feet, carried me out, and the witnesses of all of these events—Gaius, Faustus, Peter, and Paul—followed. These witnesses, having picked me up in a rushing motion, took me out of the village. And, having put me upon a bareback donkey, they led me away.
As you can see Pope Abba St Demetrius shows quite some determination to be martyred as well, but in his case God had other plans.