All the things below are said about the virgin saint mary... who understands all of this? why is the congregation expected to say all these things without understanding it... Is it bad to do that? I sang most of it in church which I normally would not but I trust the church would know what its doing right?
Are all these things really true about Saint Mary? I see nothing wrong with honouring Gods saints but it must be true honour right? and make sure it does not exceed honouring God...
For truly it is: Meet and right: To praise the True God : The Lord who dwells in Heaven.
His Name is beautiful and blessed: In the mouths of His saints: This is God the Father: The Son and the Holy Spirit.
We glorify the pure: Mary the Theotokos: The Second Tabernacle: The True Treasure.
We utter crying out: With great charm saying: Hail to you O Virgin: The Lord is with you.
Hail to you O Virgin: The salvation of Adam and Eve: Hail ...: The joy of the ages.
(Okay I understand this.. without Saint Mary Jesus would not have come and adam and eve would not have been forgiven and saved)
Hail ... : The Joy of righteous Abel
(why?)
: Hail ... : Exalted above the
Temple.
(true but shouldn't this be said of God?)
Hail ... : The ark of Noah
(how come? maybe because he who asks her intercession will be safe as if in an ark? what do you think is meant?)
: Hail ... : To the last breath.
(is that really so important to hail her to the last breath? wouldn't it be wasting time when you can praise God and pray to Him to help your heart to change?)
Hail … : The Grace of Our father Abraham
(what do you mean?)
: Hail … : The faithful Advocate.
(okay simple.. she is an intercessor right?)
Hail ... : The Redemption of Saint Isaac
(why did he in particular need redemption? okay I think I know maybe.. because God said I will provide the lamb or ram or whatever (hope that whatever is not rude) .. instead of isaac being sacrificed Jesus would be and He would never have been born without Saint Mary...... but wouldn't those words apply better to Jesus? )
: Hail ... : The Mother of the Holy.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The joy of our father Jacob
(how come? how do we know he knew about Saint Mary and not Just the Messiah would come from his son Judahs line? I guess if he would have known saint mary would have been his joy and that he might of known..)
: Hail ... : Thousands and myriads of myriads.
( what?)
Hail ... : The Pride of Judah and his brothers
(why to his brothers?)
: Hail ... : To the end of time.
(obvious?)
Hail ... : The apparition of Mosses
(how come? I know the burning bush is like saint mary but she is not the appparition of moses is she?)
: Hail ... : The Mother of the Master.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The might of Joshua and Gideon
(how come?)
: Hail ... : The triumph of Barak and Samson.
(how come?)
Hail ... : The power of Samuel :
(how come?)
Hail ... : The Queen of Israel.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The patience of Job
(how come? I know her patience would be praises like Job's but this is not what is meant is it? or maybe it is)
: Hail ... : By many varieties and various times.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The Daughter of King David
(obvious)
: Hail ... : Who was clothed in purity.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The friend of Solomon
(how come?)
: Hail ... : The almond wooden rod.
(I learnt that this is because she conceived of Jesus unnaturally.. like the wooden rod born fruit or whatever right?)
Hail ... : The prophecy of Isaiah
(yep he prophesied of Saint Mary.. Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and call His name Immanuel)
: Hail... : The restoration of
Jeremiah.
(how come?)
Hail ... : The chariot of Ezekiel
(how come?)
: Hail ... : The vision of Daniel.
(how come?)
Hail ... : The exaltation of Elijah
(how come?)
: Hail ... : Who gave birth to the Messiah.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The grace of Elisha
(how come?)
: Hail ... : The pure bride.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The joy of the angels : Hail ... : The rejoicing of the archangels.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The glory of the Patriarchs
(how come?)
: Hail ...: The preaching of the prophets.
(okay some prophets but not all of them right?)
Hail ... : The tongue of the Apostles
(how come?)
: Hail ... : The purity of the virgins.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The crown of the martyrs
(how come? the crown would be Jesus wouldn't it?)
: Hail ... : The joy of the righteous
(obvious)
Hope I am not a trouble
God Bless you for your effort
Comments
i dono about this translation. what is the source of this in our glorification, which is here, http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/cat/80
if u can just find which parts ur asking with the above translation.
http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/692
Seven times everyday (Shashf Ensop)
Why did you want to know?
I believe it is this one or something similar
http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/692
Seven times everyday (Shashf Ensop)
Why did you want to know?
am asking that because it doesn't say all of these things in the hymn. i been saying the hymn for as long as i remember and it doesn't have that much names of St.Mary. but i guess i can comment on some of them.
(why?) I don't think Abel is the subject here, but righteousness. However, it might be a reference to Matt 23:35, as St Mary's Son gives meaning to the martyrs for righteousness sake.
: Hail ... : Exalted above the
Temple.
(true but shouldn't this be said of God?) It is said about God? Why can't the Virgin also be said of the same thing. If I say you are a human being, does that mean your brother or your mother is not human?
Hail ... : The ark of Noah
(how come? maybe because he who asks her intercession will be safe as if in an ark? what do you think is meant?)Consider the story- we have a renewal in the birth of humanity because of the Arc that saved and the Flood that killed. In the midst of sin, a boat carried the Salvation of mankind.
: Hail ... : To the last breath.
(is that really so important to hail her to the last breath? wouldn't it be wasting time when you can praise God and pray to Him to help your heart to change?)Don't be so litteral. It just means that we will always hail her- and I think when we worship the Son, we are also indirectly venerating her
Hail … : The Grace of Our father Abraham
(what do you mean?)Abraham is the father of true believers (Matt. 8:11, Rom 4:11-25, Gal. 3:7,29). Need I say more.
: Hail … : The faithful Advocate.
(okay simple.. she is an intercessor right?) Correct, as demonstrated by the incident in the Marriage in Canan
Hail ... : The Redemption of Saint Isaac
(why did he in particular need redemption? okay I think I know maybe.. because God said I will provide the lamb or ram or whatever (hope that whatever is not rude) .. instead of isaac being sacrificed Jesus would be and He would never have been born without Saint Mary...... but wouldn't those words apply better to Jesus? )I don't see why it can't apply to both?
: Hail ... : The Mother of the Holy.
(obvious)
Hail ... : The joy of our father Jacob
(how come? how do we know he knew about Saint Mary and not Just the Messiah would come from his son Judahs line? I guess if he would have known saint mary would have been his joy and that he might of known..)Perhaps, Jacob saw God face to face, and his life was preserved (Gen 32:30) and such is afforded to Virgin Mary and now us?
: Hail ... : Thousands and myriads of myriads.
( what?)we hail her a lot...
Hail ... : The Pride of Judah and his brothers
(why to his brothers?)Don't they make up the tribes of Israel? And you probably knew already that Judah was the tribe the Messiah would come from.
: Hail ... : To the end of time.
(obvious?)
I'll have a go at the rest later. These are my speculations though.
[quote author=helpmelordjesus link=topic=5655.msg75430#msg75430 date=1186887086]
Hail ... : The Joy of righteous Abel
(why?)
wasn't Abel killed by his brother Cain. Abel was actually the first human in hell. And as we all know he was righteous since God accapted his offering. So through St. Mary, Jesus came abolished death and saved everyone including Abel. in a temple there is the altar where the sacrifices used to be offered. She is the altar who carried the last, eternal, and full sacrifice, Jesus Christ. through the ark Noah was saved from the flood, through St. Mary the Savior came. She is the closest person to speak for u to God. u can take that blessing or lose it I'd like to replace that verse with "the preaching of Moses"
and thta is true becuase if u read the book of jeremiah, it ends by Israel taken by Babylon and Jerusalem was distroied. and than he prophcied that it will bring a Savior which is Jesus Christ who came through St. Mary.
"She is the closest person to speak for u to God. u can take that blessing or lose it"
true she is..
but does that mean she won't pray for us if we do not hail her or even ask for her blessed intercession?
thankyou for your effort
"She is the closest person to speak for u to God. u can take that blessing or lose it"
true she is..
but does that mean she won't pray for us if we do not hail her or even ask for her blessed intercession?
it wouldn't be as u asking for her intercessions.
if i want something from you, would i expect u to just get it to me or i'll ask you if i can get that!!!
Instead, knowing that she intercedes on our behalf, we should acknowledge her, hail her (not just for interceding, but due recognition of her most blessed service to God), and ask for intercessions. The pith of the matter is that with prayer, (both worship to God and pleading with others) it is not that you miss out on something if you do not pray, but that you are missing out on prayer. The experience is one of mystery and beneficence.
and St James says .. "you have not because you asked not" and Jesus said "pray always that you may be counted worthy to stand before the Son of Man"
I do ask for Saint Marys intercession sometimes but will our blessed lady not intercede for us if we are not continually asking her? and should we nots concentrate more on prayer to God.. we can end our prayers with asking for her intercession.. but to spend your life just saying Doxologies to Saint Mary and other saints is that wise? you can do that from time to time but why excess?
I don't see how giving her a simple pleading is going to detract you away from God? I am not saying you don't value the intercessions of the Saints, but when I used to ask questions like that I knew that I had assumed that they weren't all that necessary.
Yes, but Christ is not going to stop the Sun giving you light because you don't ask for it to be so. Hence, we should not be bothered with questions such as "will they not if we don't ask." Instead, we know that we have been exhorted to do so, and so we should pray. Christ is just, and His attributes are independent of your attributes, but His will is done through people, for He shares His work through people, for it is what gives value to us that we do our Father's will. Hence, the necessity of prayer. He might not give unless You pray so You would share in His work.
I don't see how giving her a simple pleading is going to detract you away from God? I am not saying you don't value the intercessions of the Saints, but when I used to ask questions like that I knew that I had assumed that they weren't all that necessary.
well that's the discription of the concept of intercessions. there are ones that u r for saints to pray for u to God, and there are ones only for God. there is a diffrence