It seems that you guys are mostly focusing on the health hazards of smoking, but almost everything we do damages our health. For example, Should we stop eating at fast food restaurants because it is too fatty? The real question is whether or not smoking is wrong in the spiritual sense not health wise, I believe we all know and can agree that smoking is horrible for your health. The difference between smoking and drinking is that smoking does not put you in another state of mind and you still are the same in control person you were before you smoked. Whereas when you drink you are under the influence of alcohol. I hope you are understanding what i am trying to say.
Gluttony is a sin, Unworthy11! Eating fast-food occasionally can be part of a balanced diet, but eating more than once or twice a month in McDonalds is not balanced and is a sin.
Sin means to "miss the mark".
As for your argument that smoking doesn't change who you are, you are grossly mistaken. It does. Have you read my posts? It does make you more anxious. It does decrease your ability to think. It causes hypertension, and decreased vascularity to the cerebrum (i.e. less blood to your brain). It can cause Parkinson's and other neurologic deficits.
Alcohol in moderation, however, actually has benefits. In moderation it doesn't change who you are, and if it does it is only transiently (unless you are an alcoholic). Smoking scars permanently.
again doubting thomas you are getting into health problems with smoking, obviously showing that you completely missed the whole point of my post and focused on how i compared it to unhealthy eating. Yet reading what you write you are proving my point, it is just a health issue. I do not see any spiritual downsides to smoking in moderation or socially, as long as you are not addicted. So now I leave the floor to you to show me how it is a sin. I really see nothing wrong with it and know many great people who do great services for the Lord and smoke.
Something you seem to be forgetting is that we humans are 'hybrid' beings. We possess both a spirit and a body. They are intrinsically linked to one another, and while we live on earth, they are not 'separate' entities per se. As such, anything that affects our spirit will effect our body and vice versa. Sin, we know, is a spiritual illness. However, the effects of sin manifest themselves in the body. Our bodies, as Paul tells us, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Any desecration of the body is a desecration of this temple. Thus, the fact that Thomas is talking about health problems ties into the consequences of our spirit as well. When we hurt our body, we hurt our spirit. When we hurt our spirit, we hurt our body. What you are doing is treating the spirit in isolation of the body, and that cannot be done. God created us with body and spirit. When He did so, He made them one in our person. So again, anything that adversely affects the body adversely affects the spirit.
its wierd how we discussed this quickly in church today,
well, the church does not "go with" drinking often, is the damage to the body, -of coarse- and the devil has his way to trick us, you might say i only drink one cup, and i could handle 2, so you build it up. then u could do it often, and likely end up drunk. u could also say its been a year, and i havent been drunk, this is when the devil "takes action", he takes his time to when the time is right.
im not saying drinking is wrong, it is not a sin to drink, but u have to control your-self, and know that the devil will tempt you..
Hello I did not even want to read this post.. because I thought I would get nothing out of it. Actually it was perhaps my favourite topic ever. I benefited from it. Unfortunately I might forget what I am told.
Someone said "we all know the health problems of......" Actually I did not know it much. If I was a smoker I would know more hopefully or if I was a servant.
God Bless you all!
"guard your heart with all diligence for out of it spring the issues of life"
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"
"the lips of the righteous feed many"
I know it is not always important to lecture people.. but at least to feel compassion in your heart and pray for other is very important.. and God will let you know hopefully when you can speak to others you love about such things.. to have thoughts of concern is very imporant.. but your lecturing (?) I think was very imporant!
Pray that I may have more wisdom.. sometimes studying a topic which is so imporant and serious is very boring.. I do not want to go into the details of something.. we have great sorrow sometimes in life that we don't want a long helpful and informative talk which seems to add sorrow.. but it is very important to speak.. and when it is said seasoned with salt it will be prosperous .. pray that we may have boldness to speak the truth.. and to remember all things that keep us on the path of life.. "there is a time to speak and a time to keep silent" "Lord grant us wisdom to know when especially me lest I am forsaken while others enter into your peace and I do not" sorry if my prayer offends you.
I actually think now part of the reason why I can not deal comfortably with some people at university is because of what smoking has done to some.. because I am a shy temperament maybe and they also have some type of anxiety from smoking.. maybe they come to me because they think I smoke! haha just a thought..
forgive me if I have said anything offensive because it sometimes hurts to sit and think too much about what to say.. and I say what comes to my head which seems good..
God Bless again!
May you increase in more wisdom and knowledge and me too let me
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5659.msg79922#msg79922 date=1196643070] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Something you seem to be forgetting is that we humans are 'hybrid' beings. We possess both a spirit and a body. They are intrinsically linked to one another, and while we live on earth, they are not 'separate' entities per se. As such, anything that affects our spirit will effect our body and vice versa. Sin, we know, is a spiritual illness. However, the effects of sin manifest themselves in the body. Our bodies, as Paul tells us, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Any desecration of the body is a desecration of this temple. Thus, the fact that Thomas is talking about health problems ties into the consequences of our spirit as well. When we hurt our body, we hurt our spirit. When we hurt our spirit, we hurt our body. What you are doing is treating the spirit in isolation of the body, and that cannot be done. God created us with body and spirit. When He did so, He made them one in our person. So again, anything that adversely affects the body adversely affects the spirit.
Thanks Cephas, that brilliantly elucidated my point. I missed you, by the way :P.
Dear Unworthy1, As I am working in the field of addiction psychiatry I can assure you that smoking is addictive even more so than is alcohol. Alcohol in moderation doesn't harm; it actually builds. The complete antithesis is smoking. Smoking doesn't build at all; it harms every tissue. However, some few studies (that I doubt the reliability of) suggest that it may have an impact on concentration and increasing it to an extent. But this is not at all the case I see with smokers. Again let me assure you it is addictive; there is nothing called moderation in smoking. Like Cephas pointed out; St Paul teaches us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit; we shouldn't defile them by smoking (or by getting dependent on the alcohol). St Paul also taught us that every thing is fitting for me, but nothing masters me. Believe me; smoking does control the will of people; not as much as alcohol does. BUT OBVIOUSLY, alcohol can turn to a more dangerous ugly monster if not kept under control, more than the smoking can be. I hope that makes sense... God bless you and pray for us a lot
[quote author=Doubting Thomas link=topic=5659.msg79943#msg79943 date=1196657340] Thanks Cephas, that brilliantly elucidated my point. I missed you, by the way :P.
Comments
In Christ,
Anglian
God Bless
Sin means to "miss the mark".
As for your argument that smoking doesn't change who you are, you are grossly mistaken. It does. Have you read my posts? It does make you more anxious. It does decrease your ability to think. It causes hypertension, and decreased vascularity to the cerebrum (i.e. less blood to your brain). It can cause Parkinson's and other neurologic deficits.
Alcohol in moderation, however, actually has benefits. In moderation it doesn't change who you are, and if it does it is only transiently (unless you are an alcoholic). Smoking scars permanently.
God Bless.
Something you seem to be forgetting is that we humans are 'hybrid' beings. We possess both a spirit and a body. They are intrinsically linked to one another, and while we live on earth, they are not 'separate' entities per se. As such, anything that affects our spirit will effect our body and vice versa. Sin, we know, is a spiritual illness. However, the effects of sin manifest themselves in the body. Our bodies, as Paul tells us, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Any desecration of the body is a desecration of this temple. Thus, the fact that Thomas is talking about health problems ties into the consequences of our spirit as well. When we hurt our body, we hurt our spirit. When we hurt our spirit, we hurt our body. What you are doing is treating the spirit in isolation of the body, and that cannot be done. God created us with body and spirit. When He did so, He made them one in our person. So again, anything that adversely affects the body adversely affects the spirit.
well, the church does not "go with" drinking often, is the damage to the body, -of coarse- and the devil has his way to trick us, you might say i only drink one cup, and i could handle 2, so you build it up. then u could do it often, and likely end up drunk. u could also say its been a year, and i havent been drunk, this is when the devil "takes action", he takes his time to when the time is right.
im not saying drinking is wrong, it is not a sin to drink, but u have to control your-self, and know that the devil will tempt you..
Someone said "we all know the health problems of......" Actually I did not know it much. If I was a smoker I would know more hopefully or if I was a servant.
God Bless you all!
"guard your heart with all diligence for out of it spring the issues of life"
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"
"the lips of the righteous feed many"
I know it is not always important to lecture people.. but at least to feel compassion in your heart and pray for other is very important.. and God will let you know hopefully when you can speak to others you love about such things.. to have thoughts of concern is very imporant.. but your lecturing (?) I think was very imporant!
Pray that I may have more wisdom.. sometimes studying a topic which is so imporant and serious is very boring.. I do not want to go into the details of something.. we have great sorrow sometimes in life that we don't want a long helpful and informative talk which seems to add sorrow.. but it is very important to speak.. and when it is said seasoned with salt it will be prosperous .. pray that we may have boldness to speak the truth.. and to remember all things that keep us on the path of life.. "there is a time to speak and a time to keep silent" "Lord grant us wisdom to know when especially me lest I am forsaken while others enter into your peace and I do not"
sorry if my prayer offends you.
I actually think now part of the reason why I can not deal comfortably with some people at university is because of what smoking has done to some.. because I am a shy temperament maybe and they also have some type of anxiety from smoking.. maybe they come to me because they think I smoke! haha just a thought..
forgive me if I have said anything offensive because it sometimes hurts to sit and think too much about what to say.. and I say what comes to my head which seems good..
God Bless again!
May you increase in more wisdom and knowledge and me too let me
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Something you seem to be forgetting is that we humans are 'hybrid' beings. We possess both a spirit and a body. They are intrinsically linked to one another, and while we live on earth, they are not 'separate' entities per se. As such, anything that affects our spirit will effect our body and vice versa. Sin, we know, is a spiritual illness. However, the effects of sin manifest themselves in the body. Our bodies, as Paul tells us, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Any desecration of the body is a desecration of this temple. Thus, the fact that Thomas is talking about health problems ties into the consequences of our spirit as well. When we hurt our body, we hurt our spirit. When we hurt our spirit, we hurt our body. What you are doing is treating the spirit in isolation of the body, and that cannot be done. God created us with body and spirit. When He did so, He made them one in our person. So again, anything that adversely affects the body adversely affects the spirit.
Thanks Cephas, that brilliantly elucidated my point. I missed you, by the way :P.
As I am working in the field of addiction psychiatry I can assure you that smoking is addictive even more so than is alcohol. Alcohol in moderation doesn't harm; it actually builds. The complete antithesis is smoking. Smoking doesn't build at all; it harms every tissue. However, some few studies (that I doubt the reliability of) suggest that it may have an impact on concentration and increasing it to an extent. But this is not at all the case I see with smokers. Again let me assure you it is addictive; there is nothing called moderation in smoking. Like Cephas pointed out; St Paul teaches us that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit; we shouldn't defile them by smoking (or by getting dependent on the alcohol). St Paul also taught us that every thing is fitting for me, but nothing masters me. Believe me; smoking does control the will of people; not as much as alcohol does. BUT OBVIOUSLY, alcohol can turn to a more dangerous ugly monster if not kept under control, more than the smoking can be. I hope that makes sense...
God bless you and pray for us a lot
[quote author=Doubting Thomas link=topic=5659.msg79943#msg79943 date=1196657340]
Thanks Cephas, that brilliantly elucidated my point. I missed you, by the way :P.
Awww shucks bro. I missed you too. :)
Well, I think it's great to have you both back - making, as ever, excellent points.
In Christ,
Anglian
Dear John,
Thank you for the warm welcome. I've missed your fantastic insights as well. :)