It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
This is in line with what St. Ignatius, (Ephes xxi) taught, when he speaks of Christians as3. Wherefore with full assurance let us partake as of the Body and Blood of Christ: for in the figure of Bread is given to thee His Body, and in the figure of Wine His Blood; that thou by partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ, mayest be made of the same body and the same blood with Him. For thus we come to bear Christ in us, because His Body and Blood are distributed through our members; thus it is that, according to the blessed Peter, we became partakers of the divine nature.
And in a famous passage, St. Gregory of Nyssa wrote:breaking one bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote that we should not die, but live for ever in Jesus Christ.
This all seems pretty clear, that the Church believe that in taking the Body and Blood of Our Lord, in addition to walking in His way, we aid the process of theosis.Since then that God —containing flesh partook for its substance and support of this particular nourishment also, and since the god who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, viz. that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified, for this end it is that, by dispensation of His grace, He disseminates Himself in every believer through that flesh whose substance comes from bread and wine, blending Himself with the bodies of believers, to secure that, by this union with the immortal, man too may be a sharer in incorruption. he gives these gifts by virtue of the benediction through which He transelements the natural quality of these visible things to that immortal thing.
Comments
not sure thoo....maybe Iqbal can verify.
John,
I have heard this as well, and if it is true, is very troubling news indeed. For our hierarchy to start teaching such heretical things is very disturbing to say the least. I had heard that this is in response to one George Bebawy, who the Pope and (it would seem) Bishop Bishoy regard as a heretic. Mr. Bebawy, it seems, has been very vocal in his teachings of Theosis, which is very much Orthodox and in line with what the Church teaches. You have illustrated some examples of such teachings in your above quotes. Let's not also forget quotes from such great teachers as Clement of Alexandria who said, 'The Word of God became man, so that we may learn from a Man, how man might become God' (Exhortation to the Greeks, 1) and St. Athanasius the Apostolic who said, 'God became man so that man might become God' (On the Incarnation, 54). Then, of course, there is the verse in St. Peter's Epistle, alluded to by St. Cyril of Jerusalem. Thus, as far as the Church is concerned, theosis is valid doctrine.
After a quick google search, I found this article published in Daily News Egypt. It doesn't give very much information on the matter.
Here is what the Keraza has to say on this matter.
What troubles me though is that the Pope, while remaining perfectly Orthodox, is misunderstanding/misrepresenting the teachings of those who teach the Orthodox doctrine of theosis. What troubles me further is that he seems to be rejecting Orthodox terminology based on this misunderstanding.
I believe a recent book by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was banned by Pope Shenouda precisely because of his teachings on theosis. Yet I do not think Fr. Anthony has ever taught anything other than the theosis of the Church Fathers. I've never seen in his works any notion that we partake of the divine essence.
His long standing opposition to the works of Fr. Matta el Meskeen is also at the heart of this controversy, but having only read Orthodox Prayer Life, I'm not familiar enough with Fr. Matta's teachings to know whether he has been dismissed for the same reasons as Fr. Anthony or not.
I suppose the fact that, unlike St. Gregory Palamas and other EO Fathers, the Coptic Church has not formed any elaborate distinction between energies and essence could account for such a misunderstanding.
If I've spoken wrongly on any matter, please correct me.
As far as I can see you are spot on.
My reading of what the Pope is saying is that he is condemning the notion that we can be united with the essence of the Divine, which is, as you say, heretical; but I am unsure who is arguing that we can be be thus united.
We could certainly all agree in condemning that heresy - any anyone who might be spreading it - if there is anyone; I am unclear that Prof. Bebawy is saying this - although some of the things is he cited as teaching are certainly contrary to Orthodox teaching.
Perhaps, as you suggest, the want of a clear distinction between essence and energies may be part of the problem - but St. Cyril of Jerusalem and St. Clement both did without that exact distinction, and managed well enough to express Orthodox belief.
Linguistic misunderstanding have, literally, bedevilled us so many times; let us pray it does not happen here.
In Christ,
Anglian
This was written by one of our Bishops in Southern US (I think, HG Bishop Youssef, if not forgive me)
Q: How does Coptic theology approach and explain the subject of 'theosis'? Chalcedonians use the Palamite terms 'essence' and 'energy': man participates in God's energies but not in His essence.
A: Theosis or Deification means "union with God" taken from the Greek Theos - God, and the word Enosis - union. Our Lord Jesus Christ asked God the Father "They also may be one in us" (Jn 17:21). He also gave us the command of Theosis "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (Mt 5:48), our goal in life is to accomplish perfect union with God through the grace of the Holy Spirit. Man was created in the image and likeness of God, and then sin created a gap between God and mankind, causing damage to our souls. All Christians through baptism receive the seed of Theosis, which is not only to the forgiveness of sins, reconciliation and justification, but also a restoration of God's image. The sinful inclination of our human nature should not govern our behavior anymore; instead we should strive to live a holy life looking towards Jesus Christ the author of our faith, and growing in His knowledge and sonship. The restoration and sanctification of Theosis brings us back into relationship with the Creator. St. Athanasius' presentation of Theosis was summarized as "the reintegration of the divine image of man's creation through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit conforming the redeemed into the likeness of the Lord Jesus Christ, and also of the believer's transition from mortality to immortality so that he is enabled to participate in the eternal bliss and glory of the kingdom of God."
Our full union with God is a union with the "energies" of God. These energies, while an extension of God, are not to be confused with the "essence" or "substance" of God, which is unknown by humans and is shared only by the Holy Trinity. Our union with God will not make us gods but will make us partners in the Divine nature in works not in essence. We will not acquire the unique characteristics of God such as being the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, but it will make us partners with Him in building the Kingdom by our own salvation and by winning the souls of others to the Lord Jesus Christ.
I am not trying to reiterate what you guys said, but just to show that this Theosis doctrine is not something absent in Coptic clergy...I don't know. I am at a loss for words.
Enormously helpful, thank you very much for this reference, which certainly confirms Orthodox teaching on theosis.
Certainly we would all condemn the idea that man could be united with the Godhead - we are sons 'by adoption' only; but I have yet to see anyone putting forward that heresy.
I wonder what the Arabic for the various words involved is, and whether that could have anything to do with the confusion?
In Christ,
Anglian
I) Conclusion: Divinization According to St. Cyril of Alexandria
• It is in Christ as representative of humanity and as pattern for the human race that we discover St. Cyril’s understanding of the concept of Divinization.
• The baptism of our Lord Jesus Christ, His reception of the Holy Spirit, His death, His resurrection, and His ascension, and the out pouring of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost Day are the actual sanctification and divinization of Christ to the Human race.
• In fact, the entirety of Christ’s life on earth displays the progressive sanctification, and indeed divinization of the human race, which He assumed and transformed in Himself first for all.
• Christ at one and the same time the agent of our redemption, the representative recipient of our redemption, and the pattern for our progress in the Divine Life.
• Divinization is the impartation of the Divine Life, working in us through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in Baptism, and the Life-Giving Body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Divinization also includes our progressive growth into the Divine Image.
• Divinization is God’s life implanted in us, bringing about the full spiritualization of human nature, and can not be dissociated from our free and faith filled response to God, and our growth in the virtue through obedience to the Divine commandments, yielding a way of life pleasing to God.
“By which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge”. (2nd. Peter 1:4)
Thank you and GBU all for your replies on this very important topic.
PS: as for "Prof. Bebawy" beware his insulting and highy poisonous tongue against both the Church and HH the Pope.
I found a nice article that I forgot I had on the matter. Thought I'd share it with you all:
Thank you; that is extremely helpful.
It is clear that HH is condemning the notion that we can partake of God's essence; I am told the Mormons preach that we can become Gods; but then since they are not Christians in any orthodox sense, it is not clear who amongst Christians is saying this.
Good to have such a clear definition.
In Christ,
Anglian
Thank you for sharing with us this excellent article, I just have one slight disagreement with it,
I might be wrong, but the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Logos, united with the Person of Jesus Christ without mingling, without confusion and without alteration. Our Lord is the God Incarnate, not mere penetration of the Divine energies. What do you think, I want to know your valuable thought on this and also that of John.
Dear Cevac,
Thank you for sharing with us this excellent article, I just have one slight disagreement with it,
I might be wrong, but the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Logos, united with the Person of Jesus Christ without mingling, without confusion and without alteration. Our Lord is the God Incarnate, not mere penetration of the Divine energies. What do you think, I want to know your valuable thought on this and also that of John.
Since it is possible for all of us to become united with the divine energies of God, it would be absurd to say Christ in His humanity could not do the same.
The divine essence of Christ was never mixed with His humanity, nor can we ever partake thereof. But I see nothing wrong with saying the divine energies interpenetrate the human nature of Christ.
May I ask you kindly who is the author of the last article submitted by you in the end of the first page?
I want to know if the Coptic Church approves what is written in this article. .
My understanding would be the same as that of Orthodox11; but like you, I wonder whether this is what the Coptic Orthodox Church holds. The language of 'energies' and 'essence' is not one that I have come across within our Church, although it is often implied.
It would interesting to explore this a little further.
In Christ,
Anglian
My apologies, I totally forgot to reference the article. Truth be told, I didn't recall where I got if from until I went home and checked. It's from the Orthodox Study Bible.
Safaa,
As for the statement in question, my view of it is identical to Orthodox11. I could never have put it as eloquently as he has, so I'm glad he took the time to explain it.
Thank you very much, I still think the jury is still out. Orthodox Christians should approach this subject of deification very carefully, otherwise we will join the New-Age Christians in their heresy. Our Coptic Church dose not talk about the deification of the man but rather on building the inner soul with submission and in acquiring the virtues and reaching the state of godliness. If the person is truly humble in front of the Creator he/she would not even think about deification. In reading of the Synexorion of our great heroes of faith I feel not worthy to talk about this subject.
Safaa,
Do not worry, deification is very much Orthodox teaching. If you look back at previous posts, we have quotes from the Holy Fathers that back this up, including a couple from our very own Coptic Church (i.e. Clement and Athanasius). St. Peter, in his epistle, is clear about this concept as well. We will 'partake of the divine nature'. Now, please note the wording. We will not become divine, we will partake of the divine. Thus, our nature will not change and we will not become divine beings. Rather, we will remain possessing our human nature, but our nature will be glorified in our union with the Divine. That is why God became man, so that we may be more fully united with Him. I had always been somewhat skeptical of using terms such as 'divine essence' and 'divine energies', because I felt they were overcomplications. I figured it was just common sense (from an Orthodox perspective) that we would never possess a divine nature, but that our human nature would be more united to God. But, now I see how such wording can help clarify this often difficult concept.
Does anyone have any references to the Pope's comments on this? I find it hard to believe a theologian of such stature as Pope Shenouda could contradict such pillars of Orthodoxy as St. Athanasios the Great.
[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5689.msg76047#msg76047 date=1187990687]
It would seem from the Keraza article that what the Pope disagrees with is not the Orthodox doctrine of theosis, but the notion that man become united with the divine essence of God, which would indeed be heresy.
What troubles me though is that the Pope, while remaining perfectly Orthodox, is misunderstanding/misrepresenting the teachings of those who teach the Orthodox doctrine of theosis. What troubles me further is that he seems to be rejecting Orthodox terminology based on this misunderstanding.
I believe a recent book by Fr. Anthony Coniaris was banned by Pope Shenouda precisely because of his teachings on theosis. Yet I do not think Fr. Anthony has ever taught anything other than the theosis of the Church Fathers. I've never seen in his works any notion that we partake of the divine essence.
His long standing opposition to the works of Fr. Matta el Meskeen is also at the heart of this controversy, but having only read Orthodox Prayer Life, I'm not familiar enough with Fr. Matta's teachings to know whether he has been dismissed for the same reasons as Fr. Anthony or not.
I suppose the fact that, unlike St. Gregory Palamas and other EO Fathers, the Coptic Church has not formed any elaborate distinction between energies and essence could account for such a misunderstanding.
If I've spoken wrongly on any matter, please correct me.
Ortho11,
Hi my friend. Khristos Anesti.
Where (which part) in his text did you feel our Pontiff is misunderstanding those that teach theosis?
I'd like to know.
There appears to be a contradiction in this thread, so I'd like to re-capitulate the Orthodox notion of "Partaking of the Divine Nature". (as far as I understand it anyway! - please correct me if I'm wrong.. at least that way, we have a basis for understanding/clearing up any misunderstandings).
a) Its partaking OF the Divine Nature, not IN the Divine nature. Partaking OF the Divine nature is the same as me getting a suntan from the rays OF the Sun. I do not touch the sun, nor am I consumed by it , nor do I partake IN the Sun's nature to get a tan (that would liquify me). I partake of the Divine Nature in so far as the Divine Energies of God's nature are fullfilled in me through the working of His Holy Spirit.
b) We do not unite with the Divine Nature. Again, I can use the same example above. When the Holy Spirit abides in us, He is not uniting with our nature. He is abiding. Abiding IS AN INTIMATE PRESENCE of GOD WITHIN OUR HEARTS. This presence is not a hypostatic union with us!! Not at all... Its an intimate presence.
c) During Holy Communion, we eat True Body, and Blood of Our Lord. This is for the remission of sins, not for our deification. It doesnt deify us, it purifies us. How can we eat Divinity? How can our mouths and digestive system comprehend assimilate Divinity?? Its so absurd.
What did you expect the pope to say??
What's the stance of the Greek Orthodox Church on this??
I'll pm u tomorrow Ortho.. i'm really concerned.. this topic has really gotten out of hand.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in anything.