Hello! My topic was here a very long time ago.I just wanted to say that I returned from Egypt a very short time ago... Things haven't really changed a lot as far as issue of my acceptance of the church... I still struggle with long services and idea of fasting... I really want to like it or at least accept it... Please pray for me... We are getting married so soon...
Sorry I just didn't want to start a new topic because the issues are the same... Yes it has been a long time and we didn't marry yet but we are planning so soon...
[quote author=sonya111 link=topic=5708.msg76206#msg76206 date=1188398372] I am engaged to Coptic Orthodox.We are planning to get married.I agreed to get baptized because I know that Orthodox can't marry a Catholic.However I am still very close to my church and it is much more familiar to me.This is the place I was brought in.For my fiance his church is very important.There are no compromises concerning this issue.He wants his children to be brught up in Coptic Orthodox church etc and I sometimes feel I am unable to be a true Orthodox.The sermons are very long and tiring for me.Moreover they are in Arabic and Cotpic so I dont understand anything.I was just participating to take comunion.We are planning to live in Egypt actually there r no other opportunitites now.This is another issue because I am not so happy about it.I am sorry for being a little bit chaotic.I just have a request- please pray for us to take right decision according to God's will not to our will...
Hi Sonya, I really do understand your predicament. I am Coptic and so is my wife. She doesnt speak arabic at all (well.. only a few words like na3eeman, merci, shokran etc), and my arabic isn't that good either, and unfortunately, the mass is always most often in Arabic - hardly ever in French. If the sermon is in arabic, i usually understand perhaps 60% and she obviously will only understand 1% (that's assuming abouna says na3eeman during the sermon) lol
My advice is this: get a REALLY good book to help u follow the mass with. Then you are sorted.
ALso, why not learn Coptic?
My wife and I were both raised in a Catholic environment also, yet our 1st baptism was in a Coptic Church. We love to go there often (to the catholic church), but we found a few issues that really bothered us there. We ended up saying to ourselves: "Even if we don't understand a word of Coptic, its safer to be Coptic (or Greek Orthodox!! LOL)
What were the things that really bothered me:
* Neither of us understood why the priests never give the blood.Only the body. That's really odd. * Also, the body is in the form of a wafer, not real bread. * THe Holy Body is NEVER part what is consecrated in the mass. It may have been consecrated before, but not during that mass. You see what I mean?? For example, the priest in the Catholic CHurch will take the Body and break it. What HE takes to eat, and what He breaks IS NOT what is distributed to the congregation. * The Catholics venerate the Body of Christ. THat's great!! We do to. We worship His Holy Body. That's wonderful, except we don't end up keeping it locked up overnight. --> Maybe that's a small issue, but it still bothered me. * I attended MANY catholic churches.. the charismatic movement is really growing vast in them. I have nothing against them, but we are not charismatic in our personalities, so attending such prayer meetings, or services really became quite uncomfortable.
They'd be singing in tongues, and we'd be praying that they'd just stop that noise and focus on the Bible reading.
If you are a strong catholic, and practicing.. its REALLY unfair to not let u go to your Church. Given that my wife and I were both raised in a Catholic environment, we respect it enormously. We are at home in a Catholic Church. But, we are SAFER in a Coptic Church (or Greek Orthodox lol) You see the difference??
Also, we have a lot in common with the Catholics. We both love St. Mary. I know u do not worship her, neither do we. I realise that you do not consider her as a co-redeemer, neither do we.
The only issues u have to overcome that is evident is the immaculate conception, and the Filoque.
Now, this is my PERSONAL OPINION, and others are MORE THAN WELCOME to disagree... ok?? But I feel that these issues do not effect your salvation. They are hardly ever discussed in a CHurch and the Filoque is only said once during mass (when u recite the Creed).
Basically, if we use REALLY cold (below freezing) Ice as an example to explain the Holy Trinity. We take that ice and put it in a glass at room temperature, we'll see something interesting: --> Water will start to be produced as some ice melts that is touching the glass --> Vapour is produced from surface of the ice as it evaporates. This is the most PERFECT example of the Trinity that exists as far as I can see. Because The vapour is coming from where? The water or the ice? Its coming from the ice. The water is coming from where? The vapour or the ice? Its coming from the ice. The ice is the source. From this source we have the vapour (the Holy Spirit) and the Son (Christ). Both proceeded from the same source. The ice is not the water, the water is not the vapour, and the vapour is not the ice, yet all 3 are the 1 entity: Water. I cannot decompose the water from the ice from the vapour. Can I?? You see? Its one, but made of 3 states. And each state (vapour and water is proceeding from the ice (the Father).
I really don't want to worry you even more or anything, but you say you're getting married pretty soon and if these problems are not resolved yet then you're risking a bad start to a bad marriage. I'm Egyptian, lived half my life in Egypt and the other half in Europe. I've been to Catholic mass a couple of times, yet I just feel more spirituality in Coptic mass. You said you found it boring and monotonous, I can understand you completely for that's how I think most people feel, including me, when they're still newbies to the church. I mean one you understand what's being said and you join in with prayers and such, it changes loads. I used to think mass was boring too when I was younger and didn't understand it and appreciate it. Now I think mass never lasts long enough! I'm living in a place where there are no coptic churches nearby and this has really thought me to appreciate it even more. I would not leave the coptc church to get married and I think if you love your church and don't feel comfortable leaving it, you shouldn't either.
As to life in Egypt, it's unique! If you compare it with life in Europe, then you'll find many differences and this will be frustrating, especially for a European woman... But I don't think Egypt should be compared to Europe, it's a completely different place with different customs and a differend way of thinking. From my own experience I feel people are warmer in Egypt, but that's maybe also because I was raised there...
Anyways, I think you should really consider the Coptic Orthodox church, although I know it must be very difficult for an outsider to appreciate our traditions and our way with dealing with our faith, but I think once you get used to it, you will benefit a lot spiritually. Should you decide to really go with Coptic, then you have to go 100%, and I welcome you.
However, if you feel you're not doing it out of conviction but rather because you feel YOU have to be the one tho comprimise because your husband won't, then I advice you to take more time and think about it. But you really shouldn't start a marriage while feeling you had to give up part of you for your fiance.
Culture and language are difficult and frustrating in the beginning but I'm sure you will soon learn and get used to it, as so many Egyptians (not all) did when they moved to Europe. I'm planning on returning to live in Egypt some day, as I'm also a patriot, but I'm also a realist and I know I will have to give up a lot, yet I consider feeling peace in your heart the most important thing and this you acheive when you do God's will.
So I'll be praying for you and that's what you should do too... Prayer is so underestimated I think, but God will surely guide your heart if you truly turn to Him.
I really advise you to learn the tasbeha IN COPTIC (not in English). Yes, know the meaning in English, but learn this in Coptic. Get cassettes, or download from here.
I really hope u like the Coptic Church. I know in Egypt that the people are loving and will make u feel at home. I went to a beautiful catholic church in Cairo. Its where the ambassador of France used to pray, with the head of French Security for Chirac. We were friends and i knew them, so I went to the Church often (its in the Maadi district: I thinkts street 21 or street 24 - around there). Having said that, I was a bit disappointed in my friends for going to Egypt and going straight to a Catholic Church and not even trying a Coptic Orthodox Church. Now, if you are English, why doesn't your husband translate the sermon for you??
I know when I went to the catholic, there were times where I felt really lost. I didnt know any of the songs etc.. but then I started to learn etc. It will take time, but you will see that with practice, you will learn many hymns. I'm sure.
Comments
My topic was here a very long time ago.I just wanted to say that I returned from Egypt a very short time ago... Things haven't really changed a lot as far as issue of my acceptance of the church... I still struggle with long services and idea of fasting...
I really want to like it or at least accept it... Please pray for me... We are getting married so soon...
pray for me also
joe
I am engaged to Coptic Orthodox.We are planning to get married.I agreed to get baptized because I know that Orthodox can't marry a Catholic.However I am still very close to my church and it is much more familiar to me.This is the place I was brought in.For my fiance his church is very important.There are no compromises concerning this issue.He wants his children to be brught up in Coptic Orthodox church etc and I sometimes feel I am unable to be a true Orthodox.The sermons are very long and tiring for me.Moreover they are in Arabic and Cotpic so I dont understand anything.I was just participating to take comunion.We are planning to live in Egypt actually there r no other opportunitites now.This is another issue because I am not so happy about it.I am sorry for being a little bit chaotic.I just have a request- please pray for us to take right decision according to God's will not to our will...
Hi Sonya,
I really do understand your predicament. I am Coptic and so is my wife. She doesnt speak arabic at all (well.. only a few words like na3eeman, merci, shokran etc), and my arabic isn't that good either, and unfortunately, the mass is always most often in Arabic - hardly ever in French. If the sermon is in arabic, i usually understand perhaps 60% and she obviously will only understand 1% (that's assuming abouna says na3eeman during the sermon) lol
My advice is this: get a REALLY good book to help u follow the mass with. Then you are sorted.
ALso, why not learn Coptic?
My wife and I were both raised in a Catholic environment also, yet our 1st baptism was in a Coptic Church. We love to go there often (to the catholic church), but we found a few issues that really bothered us there. We ended up saying to ourselves: "Even if we don't understand a word of Coptic, its safer to be Coptic (or Greek Orthodox!! LOL)
What were the things that really bothered me:
* Neither of us understood why the priests never give the blood.Only the body. That's really odd.
* Also, the body is in the form of a wafer, not real bread.
* THe Holy Body is NEVER part what is consecrated in the mass. It may have been consecrated before, but not during that mass. You see what I mean?? For example, the priest in the Catholic CHurch will take the Body and break it. What HE takes to eat, and what He breaks IS NOT what is distributed to the congregation.
* The Catholics venerate the Body of Christ. THat's great!! We do to. We worship His Holy Body. That's wonderful, except we don't end up keeping it locked up overnight.
--> Maybe that's a small issue, but it still bothered me.
* I attended MANY catholic churches.. the charismatic movement is really growing vast in them. I have nothing against them, but we are not charismatic in our personalities, so attending such prayer meetings, or services really became quite uncomfortable.
They'd be singing in tongues, and we'd be praying that they'd just stop that noise and focus on the Bible reading.
If you are a strong catholic, and practicing.. its REALLY unfair to not let u go to your Church. Given that my wife and I were both raised in a Catholic environment, we respect it enormously. We are at home in a Catholic Church. But, we are SAFER in a Coptic Church (or Greek Orthodox lol)
You see the difference??
Also, we have a lot in common with the Catholics. We both love St. Mary. I know u do not worship her, neither do we. I realise that you do not consider her as a co-redeemer, neither do we.
The only issues u have to overcome that is evident is the immaculate conception, and the Filoque.
Now, this is my PERSONAL OPINION, and others are MORE THAN WELCOME to disagree... ok?? But I feel that these issues do not effect your salvation. They are hardly ever discussed in a CHurch and the Filoque is only said once during mass (when u recite the Creed).
Basically, if we use REALLY cold (below freezing) Ice as an example to explain the Holy Trinity. We take that ice and put it in a glass at room temperature, we'll see something interesting:
--> Water will start to be produced as some ice melts that is touching the glass
--> Vapour is produced from surface of the ice as it evaporates.
This is the most PERFECT example of the Trinity that exists as far as I can see. Because The vapour is coming from where? The water or the ice? Its coming from the ice. The water is coming from where? The vapour or the ice? Its coming from the ice. The ice is the source. From this source we have the vapour (the Holy Spirit) and the Son (Christ). Both proceeded from the same source. The ice is not the water, the water is not the vapour, and the vapour is not the ice, yet all 3 are the 1 entity: Water. I cannot decompose the water from the ice from the vapour. Can I?? You see? Its one, but made of 3 states. And each state (vapour and water is proceeding from the ice (the Father).
Good luck!
I really don't want to worry you even more or anything, but you say you're getting married pretty soon and if these problems are not resolved yet then you're risking a bad start to a bad marriage. I'm Egyptian, lived half my life in Egypt and the other half in Europe. I've been to Catholic mass a couple of times, yet I just feel more spirituality in Coptic mass. You said you found it boring and monotonous, I can understand you completely for that's how I think most people feel, including me, when they're still newbies to the church. I mean one you understand what's being said and you join in with prayers and such, it changes loads. I used to think mass was boring too when I was younger and didn't understand it and appreciate it. Now I think mass never lasts long enough! I'm living in a place where there are no coptic churches nearby and this has really thought me to appreciate it even more. I would not leave the coptc church to get married and I think if you love your church and don't feel comfortable leaving it, you shouldn't either.
As to life in Egypt, it's unique! If you compare it with life in Europe, then you'll find many differences and this will be frustrating, especially for a European woman... But I don't think Egypt should be compared to Europe, it's a completely different place with different customs and a differend way of thinking. From my own experience I feel people are warmer in Egypt, but that's maybe also because I was raised there...
Anyways, I think you should really consider the Coptic Orthodox church, although I know it must be very difficult for an outsider to appreciate our traditions and our way with dealing with our faith, but I think once you get used to it, you will benefit a lot spiritually. Should you decide to really go with Coptic, then you have to go 100%, and I welcome you.
However, if you feel you're not doing it out of conviction but rather because you feel YOU have to be the one tho comprimise because your husband won't, then I advice you to take more time and think about it. But you really shouldn't start a marriage while feeling you had to give up part of you for your fiance.
Culture and language are difficult and frustrating in the beginning but I'm sure you will soon learn and get used to it, as so many Egyptians (not all) did when they moved to Europe.
I'm planning on returning to live in Egypt some day, as I'm also a patriot, but I'm also a realist and I know I will have to give up a lot, yet I consider feeling peace in your heart the most important thing and this you acheive when you do God's will.
So I'll be praying for you and that's what you should do too... Prayer is so underestimated I think, but God will surely guide your heart if you truly turn to Him.
May God help and bless you
Please pray for me
I really advise you to learn the tasbeha IN COPTIC (not in English). Yes, know the meaning in English, but learn this in Coptic. Get cassettes, or download from here.
I really hope u like the Coptic Church. I know in Egypt that the people are loving and will make u feel at home. I went to a beautiful catholic church in Cairo. Its where the ambassador of France used to pray, with the head of French Security for Chirac. We were friends and i knew them, so I went to the Church often (its in the Maadi district: I thinkts street 21 or street 24 - around there). Having said that, I was a bit disappointed in my friends for going to Egypt and going straight to a Catholic Church and not even trying a Coptic Orthodox Church. Now, if you are English, why doesn't your husband translate the sermon for you??
I know when I went to the catholic, there were times where I felt really lost. I didnt know any of the songs etc.. but then I started to learn etc. It will take time, but you will see that with practice, you will learn many hymns. I'm sure.