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How come Pope Shenouda supports the Ethiopian patriarch?
The Ethiopoian Patriarch, Abune Paulos is the worst person in the history of Ethiopia
to lead the Church. He wasn't even elected to begin with. He got to power, where he is right now, just because of the government that is in power right now.
The government that is in power right now is ethnically divided government, mainly from the Tigre ethnic tribe in norther part of the country. They fought a gureela war and were athiests and changed to 'democracy and free market'.
So now, this guy has very bad reputation on his belt. He failed to protect University students when they went there to ask for his help. The Federal Police was looking for them, to punish them and even kill them if they try to run. So they went to the Church were his "hollowness" was at, and asked/begged him to interfere. but he gave them away like Judah did.
His nick name is actually Judah. And also leba, which means a theif. They say he carries a gun under his dress, but i'm not sure. He also killed a monk, but the monk was trying to kill him first with a sword. Ya'lll see. people have reasons to kill him. If i was in my country right now, if i had the chance, i don't think i will back off. But i'm not really sure right now. I would do it if i can get away with it though.
He is the worst ever Church leader. Even the guy before him, he was also a murderer. He was with Mengistu Hailemariam, communist leader, and he was chosen by him if i'm not mistaken. He watched as people from his homeland were killed and massacred by fellow cadres.
So, my main question is... I'm sure the Coptic Chruch knows what's wrong with this mess or maybe doesn't want to find out. Why is that?
It knows that people were massacred........
but didn't say anything..................................
why? Why not disconnect the connection with the church? Why act like nothing is happeneing?
to lead the Church. He wasn't even elected to begin with. He got to power, where he is right now, just because of the government that is in power right now.
The government that is in power right now is ethnically divided government, mainly from the Tigre ethnic tribe in norther part of the country. They fought a gureela war and were athiests and changed to 'democracy and free market'.
So now, this guy has very bad reputation on his belt. He failed to protect University students when they went there to ask for his help. The Federal Police was looking for them, to punish them and even kill them if they try to run. So they went to the Church were his "hollowness" was at, and asked/begged him to interfere. but he gave them away like Judah did.
His nick name is actually Judah. And also leba, which means a theif. They say he carries a gun under his dress, but i'm not sure. He also killed a monk, but the monk was trying to kill him first with a sword. Ya'lll see. people have reasons to kill him. If i was in my country right now, if i had the chance, i don't think i will back off. But i'm not really sure right now. I would do it if i can get away with it though.
He is the worst ever Church leader. Even the guy before him, he was also a murderer. He was with Mengistu Hailemariam, communist leader, and he was chosen by him if i'm not mistaken. He watched as people from his homeland were killed and massacred by fellow cadres.
So, my main question is... I'm sure the Coptic Chruch knows what's wrong with this mess or maybe doesn't want to find out. Why is that?
It knows that people were massacred........
but didn't say anything..................................
why? Why not disconnect the connection with the church? Why act like nothing is happeneing?
Comments
He killed a monk who was trying to kill him?
Why wasn't he dealt with by the law.?
You know, people tell stories, and then people pass on slightly altered stories... and then those people pass them on.. and before you know it, the story that gets to us is something completely different from the truth... Perhaps the situation isn't as bad as it seems?
The consipiracy is just way to broad! It is tribal... and ethnic..............and power.
It is in the nature of humans, especially the people in my country. They are hungry for power and money, all the way from the Church to the government.
But it is a mess that I didn't know existed until now.. So perhaps the reason no one's intervened is because people don't know...
Putting this on the site is one step closer to a solution, your raising awareness.. Good Work, keep it up!
Hmm.. sounds like a mess.
But it is a mess that I didn't know existed until now.. So perhaps the reason no one's intervened is because people don't know...
Putting this on the site is one step closer to a solution, your raising awareness.. Good Work, keep it up!
wow... those are kind words really! Thanks!
Hope something good will come out from the next 1000 years!
Maybe someone may overpower the Ethiopian patriarch. I heard that Pope Shenouda III is going to consecrate St. Mary's Coptic Orthodox Church of Milwaukee either sometime soon, or it already happened, but if the Church is not consecrated yet, then someone from the comgregation should bring this up to him as they kiss his hand.
this was due to the unlawful deposition of Abune Theophilous and his execution by the goverment. THey then appointed a patriarch instead which the Coptic Church did not acknowledge. His name i belive was Abune Tekla.
One can see this similar situation in the Current Eriterian Church, because we still support Abune Antonious.
Recently *July 15th 2007* Catholicos Aram of Armenia started talks between teh Ethiopian Chruch and the Coptic Church, adn thus the gap was filled and the hatchet was burried and both Churches are now talking and in union again.
Lets not forget that our Pope has been given a gift of wisdom for he truly is a great man and the Lord is with him, I am pretty sure he heard all the sides of the story before he got involved and agreed to it. Lets also not be hasty to judge Abune Paulos, for even if he did doo all that, that doesnt mean he hasnt repented and hasnt changed. God's will is for him to be on the throne for a certain reason......Let His Will be done.
God Bless
The Coptic Church and the Ethiopian recently started communicating again after a long split
this was due to the unlawful deposition of Abune Theophilous and his execution by the goverment. THey then appointed a patriarch instead which the Coptic Church did not acknowledge. His name i belive was Abune Tekla.
One can see this similar situation in the Current Eriterian Church, because we still support Abune Antonious.
Recently *July 15th 2007* Catholicos Aram of Armenia started talks between teh Ethiopian Chruch and the Coptic Church, adn thus the gap was filled and the hatchet was burried and both Churches are now talking and in union again.
Lets not forget that our Pope has been given a gift of wisdom for he truly is a great man and the Lord is with him, I am pretty sure he heard all the sides of the story before he got involved and agreed to it. Lets also not be hasty to judge Abune Paulos, for even if he did doo all that, that doesnt mean he hasnt repented and hasnt changed. God's will is for him to be on the throne for a certain reason......Let His Will be done.
God Bless
I agree with Gregory on the last part because we all make mistakes and sin, then we go to Abouna to confess our sins and he forgives us. Maybe Abouna Paulos already repented to an Ethiopian priest or maybe the Ecumenical Patriarch. HE MAY HAVE EVEN CONFESSED TO POPE SHENOUDA III. We will only know after Abouna Paulos is deceased (bad el shar) because a confession cannot be revealed unless the person is dead, or if he gives Abouna the right to tell his confession (for those who may disagree, I mean they made this rule AFTER St. Moses the Black's time).
The Coptic Church and the Ethiopian recently started communicating again after a long split
this was due to the unlawful deposition of Abune Theophilous and his execution by the goverment. THey then appointed a patriarch instead which the Coptic Church did not acknowledge. His name i belive was Abune Tekla.
Lets not forget that our Pope has been given a gift of wisdom for he truly is a great man and the Lord is with him, I am pretty sure he heard all the sides of the story before he got involved and agreed to it. Lets also not be hasty to judge Abune Paulos, for even if he did doo all that, that doesnt mean he hasnt repented and hasnt changed. God's will is for him to be on the throne for a certain reason......Let His Will be done.
God Bless
Brother, please do not over infatuate Pope Shenouda's 'wisdom'... for wisdom is given by the one and only God. Perhaps he did not hear the story or did not bother to find out.
For since long time ago, the Egyptians used to use us and wrote in the scriptures what didn't belong there, saying that only they can assign Patriarchs for us. We believed it too. And we used to pay tribute with money, gold, precious metals, etc... and sometimes they send Muslim guy as a Patriarch and he didn't even spoke our language.. all he did was just stay in his room. So were all other Patriarchs that were sent to us... they didn't know anything about Ethiopia, the language, or the culture. Just stayed in their room.
It might be the Arabs /Ottomans that made them like this, i don't know.. but i'm sure in the eyes of God, there is nothing hidden... so, whoever is responsible, whether the Church or others, they know their deed. But ultimately, the Church is responsible.
So it was Hailesillasie I who started to get Patriarch from Ethiopia. I guess the Coptic Church didn't like that. Perhaps, i'm guessing and believe that they wanted to use that as a leverage for the Nile water, so we won't put a dam on it. BUt our people are too stup*d and divided to even think about the NIle. All they are good at is boasing, and pride, and rumers.
When you said the Coptic Church did not acknowledge.. what exactly do you mean? Are you saying we need your acknowledgment? If so, why? We are independent eko! from anything... from colonializm, from anything..... we have been free and resisting Islamic invasion by the Turks, The Somalis (with the help of the Turks), and even European expansionism and colonializm.
So, it was never in any kind of law that we need patriarch from our sister Church up in the north (Coptic). We have our own... saints, Popes, holy people lol, and everything. 45,000,000 followers, and more than 40,000 churches.
Thank God.
pray for me!
What have you done lately to support him other than saying "we are there with you",....
just like President Bush says to the oppressed people around the world ( in his State of the Union) speach....that all of the oppressed people in the world, we are there with you.
BUt ... u wait... and no action. Nothing but hypocricy. NOthing but treachery, And nothing but diecive.
So, what have the Coptic Church done to the Eritrean Church to condemn or rebuke the wrong/unlawful actions.
At least if not for the government, then to the current Patriarch.
The same could be applied to Ethiopian CHurch, if not for the government (since the gov appointed the current patriarch because of his tribe) then they should have said something to the Church 'leader', Abune Diablos (lol ..just kidding... we call him like this sometimes--since it kind of ryhms).
They still should................................. it's never too late, even if sometime have passed!
Bye!
Have to go study for a test! :D :D :D
i view alot of anger in you due to your nationilism which is a good thing except when it comes to church...because we are all one in God *The Ethiopion Church was a branch of the Coptic Church, started by Anba Salama at the times of Pope Athanasius the Apostolic.
*Thus the EOTC was a part of the COC
*If one was to read up on it, one truly see a tribulant history nto neccesary becasue of one church or another but because of circumstances: Sometimes the invading Ottoman's refused to let the Coptic CHurch ordain a patrairch. Sometimes misccomunications happend
*as for the Gold, Metals, Silver collections, the COC wasnt using Ethiopia for this, the COC was always under heavy stress during turbulant times (as one can see in the Coptic History books) many Caliphs or Sultans would shut down Churches, Make Christians Pay taxes to keep their faith, throw them in jail, and order the Pope to pay a heavy jizzaa' (tax), this meant he had to go all around EGYPT not ONLY ETHIOPIA to collect the money to help re-open churches and help loosen the burden.
*The COC is a church full of great leadership by men who were chosen for their position, I understand that some of them weren't saitns and the SYNAXARIUM acknowledges that but they were the right men for it was the will of GOD.
*Thus it is safe to say that when the EOTC was dealing with the COC there was a middle man between them and that was the Egyptian goverment and sometimes many things could have been not delievered to eitehr church including messages or the rightly elected Patriarch.
*An example would be at a certain time the COC didnt find a suitable replacement for the ETOC for patriarch, so a rebel monk took this into his own hands and went down with a forged note falsley stating he was the Chosen Patriarch. *In 1948 (the COC granted autocephacy) to the EOTC meaning it had it ran its own way with 5 bishops.
*THen in1959 Abune Basilous was ordained as the first Ethiopian Patriarch. (this is when Haile Selasie is seen talking ot HH Pope Kyrillos VI)
*There was no reason the Coptic church would be against that unless it truly felt that the EOTC was not ready, but it was thus it had no problem letting go, also the claim taht we wanted control of the Nile is absurd because were tlaking about the 1959 which wasnt to far back meaning their were other means to get water due to the prescence of technology. *Again your nationilsitc pride glares in this argument, which is a very beautiful thing, being the fact aht you havnet lost it at all, i wish my naitional pride could be the same as yours, but this is a matter of Church not Politics.
*By saying Acknowleging i didnt mean that .......i meant that the COC did not identify the goverment elected patriarch as the head of the Church of Etihopia. *Well it wasnt a law but it was more liek a father son relationship i.e.
A father has a son which he keeps an eye out on..and watches him grow (Spirtually) not politically and the son may think he is ready to be independant but really may not be...so the father keeps him until the son is really ready to move on and then he becomes independent.
Also as a note we do acknowlege your saints and your history
Anba Tekla el Hammanyoti is probably the best example, and lets not forget the great desert saint Abouna Abd El Messieh el Habashi who was from Ethiopia and lived in Sceites deserts of Egypt and rose to a spirtual level few can attain.
Seconldy as for Abune Paulous, im sure the man has alot of his own people against him but these same people if they truly knew the menaing of Christianity should forgive and forget and put hteir faith in their spirtual leader, for GOd Shall NOT leave them.
Lets not forget that this man touches the body of Christ every week, and God has given him the gift whcih he gave to the disciples adn apostles saying: Those whose sins you shall bind shall be bound in heaven, and those whose sins you shall loosen shall be loosend in heaven.
Secondly, i'm pretty sure the Pope starting communications with the EOTC isnt something he does automatically, he has to think about it.