Judgement Day

gregorytheSinner

Ok so after hearing a sermon taht mentioned how there are some dead people whose bodies are in the ground and their souls  in hades it got me thinking?

When good people die, their souls go to Paradise (not Heaven) likewise when evil people die their souls go to Hades (not Hell) so then what will happen when Judgement Day ccomes if these peoples souls have already been sent to either Hades or Paradise.  Will God just explain to us why we are goinhg to either Paradise/hades??/

God Bless

p

[quote author=gregorytheSinner link=topic=5746.msg76762#msg76762 date=1189569499]
Ok so after hearing a sermon taht mentioned how there are some dead people whose bodies are in the ground and their souls  in hades it got me thinking?

When good people die, their souls go to Paradise (not Heaven) likewise when evil people die their souls go to Hades (not Hell) so then what will happen when Judgement Day ccomes if these peoples souls have already been sent to either Hades or Paradise.  Will God just explain to us why we are goinhg to either Paradise/hades??/

God Bless

Gregory,
You are absolutely right, maybe we can refer to the Divine Comedy (if the Copts believe in it). Or we can just look in Revelations and pray that he shows us in there.

kokiie

I guess we'll find out when we get there  :)

Holmes

[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

As I understand it, there are two judgments.  The first is the one that occurs after you die and is based on your faith and actions, and it is these that send you either to Paradise or Hades.  Then, at the end of days, there will be the Final Judgment, where Christ will again return to judge the living and the dead.  It is after this judgment that those who are in Paradise will enter into the glory of Heaven, and those who are in Hades will enter into the darkness that is Hell.

p

[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5746.msg76778#msg76778 date=1189604896]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

As I understand it, there are two judgments.  The first is the one that occurs after you die and is based on your faith and actions, and it is these that send you either to Paradise or Hades.  Then, at the end of days, there will be the Final Judgment, where Christ will again return to judge the living and the dead.  It is after this judgment that those who are in Paradise will enter into the glory of Heaven, and those who are in Hades will enter into the darkness that is Hell.

On the radio, I heard Reverend Michael Yousseff on the radio saying that all Christians get to go straight to heaven. So now I am confused. He said that the Judgement is only for the nonbelievers. But in the Bible, Christ clearly states in His conversation with Nicodemus, that nobody without water and spirit will make it to heaven.

Unknown

[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=5746.msg76809#msg76809 date=1189632610]
On the radio, I heard Reverend Michael Yousseff on the radio saying that all Christians get to go straight to heaven. So now I am confused. He said that the Judgement is only for the nonbelievers. But in the Bible, Christ clearly states in His conversation with Nicodemus, that nobody without water and spirit will make it to heaven.


Reverend Michael Yousseff?? That sounds like the title of a Protestant minister, not an Orthodox priest. If that is the case, his views are unlikely to be those of the Orthodox Church and should therefore be of no more importance to you than what the Qur'an says about Judgement Day.

If he is an Orthodox priest, all I can say is that his views (at least as you have presented them) are not in line with the teachings of the holy Fathers.

p

Well, thank you for unconfusing me. If that is the case then I would agree with Κηφᾶς and his interpretation because that seems very logical.

stgeorgebrooklyn23

[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5746.msg76812#msg76812 date=1189636322]
[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=5746.msg76809#msg76809 date=1189632610]
On the radio, I heard Reverend Michael Yousseff on the radio saying that all Christians get to go straight to heaven. So now I am confused. He said that the Judgement is only for the nonbelievers. But in the Bible, Christ clearly states in His conversation with Nicodemus, that nobody without water and spirit will make it to heaven.


Reverend Michael Yousseff?? That sounds like the title of a Protestant minister, not an Orthodox priest. If that is the case, his views are unlikely to be those of the Orthodox Church and should therefore be of no more importance to you than what the Qur'an says about Judgement Day.

If he is an Orthodox priest, all I can say is that his views (at least as you have presented them) are not in line with the teachings of the holy Fathers.


my mom listens to him on the radio in the morning everyday. he is pretty good though. but the only thing is that we believe in different things. so i agree with Orthodox11.

and i have a small question that goes with...[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5746.msg76778#msg76778 date=1189604896]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

It is after this judgment that those who are in Paradise will enter into the glory of Heaven, and those who are in Hades will enter into the darkness that is Hell.


so we w8 for the Final Judgement is so that everyone is in either paradise or hades? not Earth. Is that like the only reason?

p

According to Κηφᾶς, the first judgement happens after you die, where God decides to put you in Paradise or Hades. Then the Final Judgment will come where, those who were in Paradise go to Heaven, and from Hades to Hell.

gregorytheSinner

So basically your fate is decided upon death???

Unknown

No, because we are rewarded for the deeds in which we have done. I believe, thus, there are levels in Heaven. I think conversely  it is with hades.

Severus

I don't know about 'levels' in heaven. The Bible never mentioned anything about that, did it?

Also, if there were levels to hell, there would be an excuse to sin, ex.

"Oh well, if lust just this one time, it's ok, I won't get punished as bad as the guy who does it every day", or
"If I lie, it's not as bad as murder, so I'll be able to handle the less severe punishment."

What's the Church's official view on this?

stgeorgebrooklyn23

well, i know that there are levels in hell, the first level is complete darkness, and the worse, is eternal fire and clashing of teeth. im not sure of the other, but for heaven, i heard a story, like of a man who went to heaven but didnt rele give to the poor etc. and saw a huge mansion while an angel was guiding him to his house, so he asked is this one mine? the angel said no its St Moses the Black's and continued untill he saw his house which was not large at all. this shows that whatever you do here, it is like paying for your eternity.

gregorytheSinner

Well in one of his many books, HH says that there are 4 levels in Heaven. I can only recall three of them though:

The Sky and the Stars, Paradise , and Heaven itself

No one has seen the Actual Heaven, the stories we here about Saints dissappearing for 5 hours and going to Heaven adn then returning to Earth are true but they see only Paradise

stgeorgebrooklyn23

well actually, St Theadore has, i think he is the only one, or one of them- he attended a liturgy in heaven, and went up and down by a ladder, ( you should read more about it. )

and are you talking about Stages or "Levels" as in how many heavens?..

is is about levels, theres only 3, which are the three you said,

- well i was talkin about stages, sorry

Severus

I see.

What are the conditions that must be met to attain the highest level?

Likewise, what kind of person must you be to go to the deepest depths of Hell?

Unknown

[quote author=Severus link=topic=5746.msg77320#msg77320 date=1190334740]
Likewise, what kind of person must you be to go to the deepest depths of Hell?


There's a story of a saint (hopefully someone here will know the name) who walked across the desert and came across the skull of a pagan priest. He began to talk to with the skull and asked the pagan where he was. "In hell," the pagan responded. "Is there anyone below you?" asked the monk. "Yes, below me are the Jews who rejected Christ," he said. "Are there anyone below them?" the monk asked again. "Below them are the Orthodox Christians who lived unjust lives," he said.

We have received the fullness of Truth, the Sacraments, etc. These are the surest means to salvation (so much that St. Cyprian said that there is no salvation outside the Church), but be assured that we also carry a much greater responsibility on judgment day, and will be held to a much higher standard.

Severus

Held to a much higher standard? Versus who?

I really don't want to state it directly...but how can the Protestants...you know what I'm getting at.

Everyone should realize that Orthodoxy is the way to go. Society would be a better place that way.

Unknown

[quote author=Severus link=topic=5746.msg77326#msg77326 date=1190336932]
Everyone should realize that Orthodoxy is the way to go.

Orthodoxy is the way to go. It is the fullness of Truth. This is why those Orthodox who, having had the tools of salvation at their disposal, decide to reject their Orthodox faith and live carelessly, impiously, etc. will be worse off than the impious heretics, Jews or pagans.

Severus

This is a good way to look at it. This corresponds with the idea that there are, indeed, varying levels of punishment.

Christ4Life

Somebody mentioned the Divine Comedy... I just wanted to say (because I was confused on this too) that the Church treats it as complete fiction. None of us have ever actually been to hell (I hope not) nor Paradise and therefore nobody can verify whether it is true or not, which is why it is treated a fiction. However, putting it into the context of Dante's life, its most likely fake (though Dante's writing is very good, he wrote the Inferno much to condemn the people who exiled him).

stgeorgebrooklyn23

[quote author=Severus link=topic=5746.msg77320#msg77320 date=1190334740]
I see.

What are the conditions that must be met to attain the highest level?

Likewise, what kind of person must you be to go to the deepest depths of Hell?


well for heaven, theres a sermon by HG Bishop Moussa called "Four Steps To Heaven" it might help you.
--sorry for not answering your answer completely

Holmes

[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5746.msg77325#msg77325 date=1190336710]
There's a story of a saint (hopefully someone here will know the name) who walked across the desert and came across the skull of a pagan priest.


If I recall correctly, this was St. Macarius the Great.