Why did Christ come to Save for us?

edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Hello,

Where in the Bible does it say that Christ came to die for the sin of Adam and Eve?
What was the big deal about the tree of knowledge : Good and bad?


Why did Christ have to die for Adam's sin? Why is it we inherit Adam's sin
If the Jews believe the same as us, that Adam and Eve sinned, then why don't they accept that Christ came to pay for all this??

Comments

  • Jesus Christ died for us to Restore us to Heaven.  Hence before this all who died went to Hades whether Good or Bad.  This was of course our father's Adam's fault. 

    Matthew 27 says (at hte moment of Jesus' Death)
    Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
    Thus the Holy were ressurrected from death (Hades)

    The deal about hte tree of knowledge was:
    prior to it we were not exposed to sin, we lived in paradise without sin and were not to know of it.  Of course being that we were free willed we had the tree infront of us, and we fell.  The tree itself is called the tree of knowledge because upon eating from it we Knew of sin.  Thus we were no longer perfect and allowed to live in paradise, but instead had to work and die.

    Christ didn't die for Adams sin, but he died to redeem Adam.  Because of Adam all humanity was sentenced to Hades.  Upon Christ' death (As we say in the Liturgy) He descended into Hades through the Cross and opened the Gates and let the Righteous Out and took them to paradise.

    I remember reading the Popes explanation why we inherit Adam's sin, but i cant recall it.  I'll get it as soon as i re-find it. 

    Lastly, although the Jews accept Adam and Eve sinning and being thrown from paradise, they do not however accept Christ as being a savior.  They are still waiting for the "messiha"
  • Thanks Greg,

    So where do the jews expect the "Messiah" to come from??

    Also, where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is "the Christ" - the chosen One to save us??

    So, is it wrong to say that He came to save us from Adam's sin? You use the term "redeem" - like to "claim back unto Him". I see. But i don't see a difference between "save" and "redeem" - for me, they are the same. Perhaps I am mistaken??
  • Well ya,
    the reason i was stressing hte word redeem was because i was referring to the good people of hte Old Testement who were automatically sentenced to Hades due to Adams Sin.  When Jesus died on the Cross they were freed from the Bonds of Hades and thus redeemed or as you said "claimed back".  We as Christians, upon death if we are deserving, go straight to paradise, because we were already saved through Christ's death
    (I'm not saying tha because HE died we will all go to Heaven, I'm sayin because He Died we are able to go to paradise (if we deserve it))

    As for Jesus being hte Christ:
    In John 1: we can read:
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it. ----  12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    The first part explains the fact that Jesus is God.  and the second part explains why we were saved because i.e. if God himself came and "gave us the right to become children of God" the most assurdely saved us. *yet again only if we are willing to be saved*

    I'm sure tehre are other exampels that I dont know of, were Jesus is prooved as Christ, that hopefully someone else will share.

    As for the Jews' belief in the Messiha, we know htat they believe he is still eyt to come, I'm pretty sure they didnt accept Jesus as teh Messiha because his entrance into the world did not resemble the entrence of a Royal King. Other than that much i Honestly dont know maybe someone else can enlighten us.

    God Bless
  • I really recommend St. Athanasius's "On the Incarnation". It explains many things and gives an insight to what the Jews believe in the chapter "Refutation of the Jews" (I think that is the name of the chapter- a long time ago sorry). It will be immensely helpful. This book was one that changed and redeemed the Universal and Apostolic Church; restoring and defending Orthodoxy. Not only that but it is by one of our own. It helps understand, even, the Trinity.

    It has been a book that has been acclaimed by all Apostolic Churches and even the Lutherans and Anglicans (who are fairly Orthodox in most Theology). 
  • The reward for sin is death.
    Jesus died for our sins.. he took the blame so we wouldn't have to die..

    The Jews believe in the messiah.. they just don't accept Jesus as the messiah...
  • Guys,
    Let me come clean. As u know I was debatting with muslims on the internet. Its better than talking to protestants by the way. Anyway, they asked me this question (above: Why did Christ die for us?).

    I explained to them the old testament and Genesis (eat of this, and u will surely die) - they didnt get that, but they said "Well.. ok, if the price of sin is death, who is to say that Jesus IS the Christ?"

    Where does it say that? Where does it say that God will send a saviour for you ???

    Then some really nice COptic guy came online and took over and explained a few prophesies...

    But what the problem was was that they didnt see the sequence of events in the old testament as preparation for the coming of Christ. How can we show them that? He said to me :"U see it as preparation for Christ's comming as they taught u that in Church, but if we just picked up the Bible and read it, from where would we learn that Jesus was born and came to save us??"


  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5755.msg76985#msg76985 date=1189862986]

    Where in the Bible does it say that Christ came to die for the sin of Adam and Eve?

    Why did Christ have to die for Adam's sin?
    God didn't only come to die for adam and eve's sin.
    He came and died for us also. because of OUR sins.
  • In Dueteronomy 18:15 it says: "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him."

    This isn't any prophet, this is Jesus Christ. To explain this however needs some time I don't have now. Also, in Isaiah 9:6 it says: 
    For to us a child is born,
          to us a son is given,
          and the government will be on his shoulders.
          And he will be called
          Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
          Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Can you tell me who that can be other than the Christ?

    There's tons more prophesies, actually there's something Anba Bishoy had done before showing every part of Our Lord's life through the OT. I'll look for it and post it.
  • Not to mention that in Genesis, God says to the serpent (Satan):
    "And I will put enmity
    Between you and the woman,
    And between your seed and her Seed;
    He shall bruise your head,
    And you shall bruise His heel." (Gen. 3:15)

    Again I cannot stress the brilliance of "On the Incarnation". I think it is a must read for any Christian!
  • Jesus, His name means Savior. Now consider these verses:

    Isaiah 43
    7 everyone who is called by my name,
          whom I created for my glory,
          whom I formed and made
    .
    "

    8 Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
          who have ears but are deaf.

    9 All the nations gather together
          and the peoples assemble.

          Which of them foretold this
          and proclaimed to us the former things?
          Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they were right,
          so that others may hear and say, "It is true."

    10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,
          "and my servant whom I have chosen,
          so that you may know and believe me
          and understand that I am he.
          Before me no god was formed,
          nor will there be one after me.

    11 I, even I, am the LORD,
          and apart from me there is no savior.

    Isaiah 49:25-26
    25 But this is what the LORD says:
          "Yes, captives will be taken from warriors,
          and plunder retrieved from the fierce;
          I will contend with those who contend with you,
          and your children I will save.

    26 I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh;
          they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine.
          Then all mankind will know
          that I, the LORD, am your Savior,
          your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob
    ."

    The Jews did not accept Him because they were thinking so selfishly, to the extent they believed that God is only for them not the almighty God of all the universe and thus of all mankind - and they taught that to their children. They had ambitions to rule over the whole world and subdue all other nations, expected a victorious warlord hero that would start things by delivering them from oppression then eliminate the Roman empire and assume its role as conqueror.

    Luke 11:52
    "Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5755.msg77018#msg77018 date=1189972567]
    But what the problem was was that they didnt see the sequence of events in the old testament as preparation for the coming of Christ. How can we show them that? He said to me :"U see it as preparation for Christ's comming as they taught u that in Church, but if we just picked up the Bible and read it, from where would we learn that Jesus was born and came to save us??"


    i think learning the concept of the original sin, closing paradise,  and needing salvation is ought to be known first before u get into the incarnation process.
  • Again I cannot stress the brilliance of "On the Incarnation of the Word".

    Very true. It is a great book, a must have and a must read.
    I bought and read a pocket version in Arabic, it's still in my library.
  • Personally, I think anything St. Athanasius wrote was tremendous. Read that first, then there are a lot of letters he wrote refuting the Arians which are very helpful too.
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