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EO

PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Do the eastern orthodox believe in the teachings of the heresy of Nastour, and the heresy of Arius? Someone told me that they believe that Nastour and Arius are saints and that the EO believe what Arius and nastour said. Is this true?

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5788.msg77478#msg77478 date=1190688595]
    Do the eastern orthodox believe in the teachings of the heresy of Nastour, and the heresy of Arius? Someone told me that they believe that Nastour and Arius are saints and that the EO believe what Arius and nastour said. Is this true?


    i doubt that this is true. Orthodox11 can speak more about this...
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    ya im pretty sure its not true because the Chruch was United when both Nestour and Arius were excommunicated.
    The Council of Nicea to excommunicate Arius took place in 325 AD
    The Council of Ephesus to excommunicated Nestour took place in 431 AD

    The Schism occured in 451 AD
  • Unknown
    The Eastern Orthodox Church upholds the anathemas against both Nestorius and Arius.
  • smile4eversmile4ever
    i think you have mixed between the EO church and the Assyrians who consider Nestorius and Theodoret as saints and they honour them , but i don't think they beleive in the heresy of Arius..just Nestorius.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    does anybody know what the EO Church believes in that's different than us?
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    Dogmatically?  As far as I know, nothing.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    if dogmatically we are the same, then what's the reason for us being seperate churches?
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    Dare I say it... yes, I dare.

    Ego.
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    A Church Servant once explained to me how we got were we are nowadays:
    Orignally in 451 their was the Great Schism at Chanceldon whcih split the Oriental Churches from the Western Churches (the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches) adn this was over the whole Mono/Mia/Diaphystis of Christ. 

    Then in 1204, occured a split between the East and West (the Roman Catholic CHurch and the Eastern Orthodox Church) over Papal Power and the Filoque Cause  (the part in the Creed were we say we believe in the Holy Spirit the LIfegiver who proceeds from the Father)  The Catholics wanted to add (THe Father and the Son) The Greeks didnt accept it and so they split.

    Wheter or not today the EO and the OO churches agree on doctorines I know not, hopefully someone will fill us in with their knowledge.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    What I heard was that at 451 we debated the fact about christ's two natures. And that's kind of what Nastour said, so that's where i got confused.
  • Unknown


    Do the eastern orthodox believe in the teachings of the heresy of Nastour, and the heresy of Arius? Someone told me that they believe that Nastour and Arius are saints and that the EO believe what Arius and nastour said. Is this true?

    This is not true.

    You are confusing the Eastern Orthodox Church with the Assyrian Church of the East. These are two completely different churches.

    I don't know of any church that specifically venerates Arius, although his teachings are still upheld by certain groups such as the Jehovah's Wittnesses and other 'unitarians'.


    What I heard was that at 451 we debated the fact about christ's two natures. And that's kind of what Nastour said, so that's where i got confused.

    Although the language used at Chalcedon was rejected by the OO as leaning towards Nestorianism, the EO understanding of this language does not in any way compromise the hypostatic union of Christ's divinity and humanity.

    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5788.msg77498#msg77498 date=1190739231]
    Dare I say it... yes, I dare.

    Ego.


    While ego might be one of the main reasons the dispute at Chalcedon became a permanent schism, I don't think it is the reason modern leaders have been unwilling to bring about unity today.

    Christology aside, the non-dogmatic issues involved are certainly not trivial ones, and I personally believe it would be rather reckless to deny them the time and consideration they deserve; so I would say today's issue is not so much ego as patience, discernment and sensitivity.
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]

    I agree.  In this present age, ego is not the sole contributor to the schism and there are other issues which must be looked into with patience, humility and discernment.  However, looking at the Council of 451, the only conclusion I can draw from it is that the split did in fact occur as a result of ego and politics, which is certainly a shameful thing for the hierarchy of the Church to have degraded to.  May the Lord enlighten the minds of the present hierarchies and grant them all humility of heart so that we may again be one Church.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    so do the assyrians know that nastour is buried under a garbage pile in sohag, Egypt?
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    probably i mean his exile and death are pretty well known
  • kokiiekokiie
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5788.msg77522#msg77522 date=1190826203]
    so do the assyrians know that nastour is buried under a garbage pile in sohag, Egypt?


    Thats not a very nice thing to say...
  • Anglican
    Dear Κηφᾶς,

    I agree.  In this present age, ego is not the sole contributor to the schism and there are other issues which must be looked into with patience, humility and discernment.  However, looking at the Council of 451, the only conclusion I can draw from it is that the split did in fact occur as a result of ego and politics, which is certainly a shameful thing for the hierarchy of the Church to have degraded to.  May the Lord enlighten the minds of the present hierarchies and grant them all humility of heart so that we may again be one Church.

    I could not agree more with you.

    The split needs to be understood in many contexts, including that of the struggle for precedence between Alexandria and Constantinople; well, both Patriarchates have paid heavily for that, as we know.

    Orthodox11 is surely, as you say, right to suggest that any reunion will be a long affair. A millennium and a half of division have led to many differences which some will always think more important than working towards union.

    That, in the face of an aggressive secularism in the West, and an equally aggressive Islamicism in the east, we Christians are still so divided must indeed give hope to Satan. It would do us good to recall how much the split at Chalcedon and what followed helped to contribute to the victory of Islam over a divided and weakened Empire. Those who refuse to learn from history are oft condemned to repeat it - let us hope and pray not.

    In Christ,

    Anglian
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5788.msg77595#msg77595 date=1190952135]
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5788.msg77522#msg77522 date=1190826203]
    so do the assyrians know that nastour is buried under a garbage pile in sohag, Egypt?


    Thats not a very nice thing to say...


    what do you mean "not a nice thing to say''? I'm stating something that pope shenouda said in one of his recorded lectures.
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    And its something true
    Nestour's Hill as its called is located in Akhmim, Sohag
    the reason he's burried there is because after beign exiled, the early fathers had to choose the city with the strongest faith so that it will not be shaken by this heresy.  And in their eyes there was no city better than Akhmim, the city of Martyrs were 8140 martyrs were killed in 3 days. Coincedentally Akhmim was also the last city in all of egypt to give up the Coptic Language as its offical language.
  • Anglican
    Dear Gregory,

    Thank you for the fascinating pieces of information.

    Let us remember that whilst we hate the sin, we are charged with loving the sinner. Nestorius was neither a bad nor a wicked man. He was a sincere Christian who fell into error in the treacherous waters of the language of Christology - an area where many of us can slip. His real sin was that of pride, just like our first parents. He thought he knew best and he was not willing to listen to good advice from, amongst others, St. Cyril. St. Cyril said that Nestorius would not find anyone who loved him more than did St. Cyril - that was why he went to such lengths to try to correct his errors.

    The Church of the East regards him as we do St. Dioscoros - a martyr to the faith - but it does not share his Christological views. His career stands as a warning to us all of the dangers of faith in ourselves rather than faith in the Risen Lord.

    In Christ,

    Anglian
  • kokiiekokiie
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5788.msg77615#msg77615 date=1190993146]
    [quote author=Hizz_chiilld link=topic=5788.msg77595#msg77595 date=1190952135]
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5788.msg77522#msg77522 date=1190826203]
    so do the assyrians know that nastour is buried under a garbage pile in sohag, Egypt?


    Thats not a very nice thing to say...


    what do you mean "not a nice thing to say''? I'm stating something that pope shenouda said in one of his recorded lectures.


    I wasn't talking about him being buried under a garbage pile.. I'm talking about what you're saying about Him and his followers.
    What does it matter where he's burried? Do you know how St Mark, our founder, died?
    And yet it does not bring us shame but great pride. You're comment sugests that it should, fof some reason, bring us shame.
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