As much as the subject line made little sense to me, and probably everyone else here, alas, one of my friends is interested in living with Christian precepts/virtues. I was about to tell him, and aim to tell him that the Christian concept of virtue is one of being humble enough to recognize our wretchedness and strive through the grace and gift of the Holy Ghost to attain the fruits because of our love of our Father (we naturally try to imitate the ones we love) and that He loved us first.
The problem also in this response is that it is void of mentioning our need to fear the Lord- in the beginning fearing condemnation and then as we are sanctified by deification (I will put it in different words of course) and evolving fear of doing what is not worthy of the love of the Father (as we fear disappointing those we love, because our love is such that we desire no harm).
Is this an appropriate way, or should I entertain him a little by just asking my friend to read the Gospel and pray that the Holy Spirit opens his eyes, for all I said above is explicit anyway in the Lord's words. I was also thinking of giving him the bibliography of St Anthony, for it convicted St Augustine, and details how St Anthony struggled to attain virtue and live by it.
Thanks.
Comments
So if your friend truly attempts to aquire Christian virtue, he will ultimately come to recognise Christ through His commandments.
2. A person who lives with Christian virtues without Christ is known as a Hindu.
1. We shouldn't really use the term Holy Ghost, lets try to use Holy Spirit because when you hear Ghost we often refer to supernatural and scary when it in fact opposite.
The words ghosts and spirit are synonyms. There is nothing wrong with saying Holy Ghost. A Hindu is one who follows one of the indigenous pagan religions of India. While many Hindus (like almost all religions) share with Christians many similar ethical principles, there are also many differences.
one french atheist philosopher (can't remember his name) was asked once why did he let his daughter leanr in a christian school, he said because while he don't beleive in christianity he admires christian virtues. so it's not necesssary to be christian to admire the christian virtues or even trying to live by the bible without beleiving in it.
Doubting Thomas,
i think giving him the Bible and the bibliography of St.Antony will be great..
the 2 points u raised are also great what's the problem with telling him both of them? and of course pray for him.
[quote author=His Servant link=topic=5830.msg78310#msg78310 date=1192377377]
1. We shouldn't really use the term Holy Ghost, lets try to use Holy Spirit because when you hear Ghost we often refer to supernatural and scary when it in fact opposite.
The words ghosts and spirit are synonyms. There is nothing wrong with saying Holy Ghost. A Hindu is one who follows one of the indigenous pagan religions of India. While many Hindus (like almost all religions) share with Christians many similar ethical principles, there are also many differences.
Hindus are very well known for how they act exactly like Christians, without Christ. Any real Hindu loves peace and love and if someone slaps your cheek give him the other. All christian virtues, but without Christ. In fact anyone can have these virtues without having Christ, they will just be missing the most important one.
I cannot see why this principle shouldn't apply in today's world. Those non-Christians who are able to follow a Christ-like path in this world are in a sense "anonymous" Christians. To be sure, St Justin Martyr argued that the seeds of the Logos dispersed amongst the Greeks were designed to prepare the Greeks for the ultimate acceptance of the Logos Himself (i.e. inspiring the Greeks to live virtuously was not an end in and of itself). As such, he taught that when Christ descended into Hades, those righteous Greeks were immediately able to recognise Christ and embrace the true Faith.
One of the delusions of nineteenth century western liberals was that it would be perfectly possible to live a virtuous life in a virtuous society by following the moral precepts of Christianity without the sacramental elements; we see the results of that in today's West.
In Christ,
Anglian
[quote author=His Servant link=topic=5830.msg78365#msg78365 date=1192566990]
But what Iqbal is saying is that without Christ one can not live a virtuous life. Many people who do not know christ live a virtuous life. Hinduism is based on the characteristics of Christians without Christ.
Not quite. As I understand it, those that do live virtuous lives and who are not Christian are still doing it with Christ. Simply because they may not know Him or acknowledge Him does not, in anyway, hinder the reality that it is His grace that is bestowing these virtues on a particular individual. When God created man, He breathed His Spirit into him and man became a living being. His Spirit is still in all of humanity although the full potential of the Spirit (i.e. the fullness of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit) is not unleashed without the Sacraments of Baptism and Charismation.