hey everyone, out of the blue some user on youtube asked me to teach him about Christianity so i agreed. i'll keep adding what he asks hopefully. so his first q is:
Be careful with such folk - they usually want to argue you out of the Faith.
To help:
St. Matthew 7:21:
21 Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
St. Matthew 16: 15-18:
16:15 He said to them, But who do you say that I am? 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Also St. Mark 8:27-29:
8:27 Now Jesus and His disciples went out to the towns of Caesarea Philippi; and on the road He asked His disciples, saying to them, Who do men say that I am? 8:28 So they answered, John the Baptist; but some say, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets. 8:29 He said to them, But who do you say that I am? Peter answered and said to Him, You are the Christ.
St. Luke 9:20:
20 He said to them, But who do you say that I am? Peter answered and said, The Christ of God.
St. Luke 10:22:
22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
St. John Chapter 5, but especially:
5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
St. John 6: 46-48:
6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 6:48 I am the bread of life
St. John 14:9-13:
14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, `Show us the Father'? 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. 14:12 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 14:13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
There are many others. But as I say, beware, it is a Protestant habit to ask Copts to cite biblical passages - remember we rely also on the tradition of the Church which has always held that Our Lord was the Christ, the only-begotten Son of God.
This subject has been discussed before in the forum and here were my replies: http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=5731.msg76535#msg76535 the quotes are mainly from the NT, the OT has the prophecies about the Savior. Almost all were fulfilled by Christ and the few remaining will on the end of time when He will come back in full glory to judge all evil and reward all the good.
Regarding the question where in the Bible Jesus Christ clearly said He is God (and the Only Begotten Son of the Most High) they are many. In fact He was condemned by the Jews at that time to be caught, interrogated then delivered to Pilatus to be executed because of this very reason.
This Muslim you contacted by email or whatever can find out easily on the internet any answers to his questions. If he is looking for Orthodox answers, direct him to Orthodox websites.
As far as you are concerned, I think you should look into the Bible yourself and read the passages and long commentaries and meditate on what it means that Christ is God?
hey guys thanks for all ur replies! but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God. its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
[quote author=jsangel_23 link=topic=5961.msg79728#msg79728 date=1196183829] hey guys thanks for all ur replies! but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God. its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
The Son is not the Father but the Son is one with the Father (one in essence/consubstantial), they are one, yet they are 2 distinct hypostases of the Trinity. And yes, it will be hard to explain this to someone who thinks the Trinity is polytheism.
Its good that you are trying to explain the faith to this guy but don't lose yourself in the process, to the point that you start to doubt what you are trying to explain. most of the time talking to people like that is a waist of breath because they are not out there to learn but to tangle you in your own words and in turn convert you in the process, only defend what is challenged and explain what is asked so that you don't fall into a trap with your words and end up contradicting yourself, i know this doesn't really answer your question but i felt it necessary to mention. Hope i helped
[quote author=jsangel_23 link=topic=5961.msg79728#msg79728 date=1196183829] hey guys thanks for all ur replies! but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God. its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
Dear jsangel,
Obviously he is picking up on his own faith's misunderstanding of the Trinity.
St. John 1:1-2:
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
1 John 2:22-24:
2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Christianity is a Trinitarian Faith, in the Words of the Creed:
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made;
He is 'of one substance with the Father', as He is with the Holy Spirit - He is very God of very God - begotten eternally of His Father before all worlds. He is not God the Father, who property is that He begets, He is the Son, the Word, the Logos, whose property is to be begotten and to become Incarnate by the Virgin Mary.
Muslims, refusing to comprehend the Trinity, confuse Father and Son, and say that the Son cannot be God - but the Godhead is the Trinity, of which the Son is part. I suspect that your Muslim friend is speaking from the common Muslim misunderstanding of these things.
The notion that everything must be proved 'from the Bible' fundamentally misunderstands the origin and status of the Bible in our Faith. Unlike the Koran, the Bible is not made up by one man who claims that it contains all that is needful. It is the record, by various hand, of the doings of Our Lord and of His Apostles. It makes no claim to record all that the Incarnate Word said and did - indeed, quite the opposite, as in John 21:25:
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
So, there is a double misunderstanding by the Muslims. If he wants to get to grips with the True Faith he will have to grasp the idea of the Adorable Trinity, and see that the Godhead is not a simple 'Monad' but a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We do not say, as the heretics say, that the Father IS the Son, or that the Son is the Father, we say that they are, with the Holy Ghost, the Trinity. This is declared in the Bible, and it is explained by the Church. Orthodox Christianity cannot be contained in sola sciptura.
Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers; which is, as others have said, possibly what he wants.
the quran calls jesus the word! among the many other titles.... so this verse goes very well,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
if thats not good enough, here is this proving that him and the father are one!
1john, 5:6-7 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spiritwho bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
okay maybe thats not clear enough... here it is from the mouth of Jesus himself!
john 10:29-30 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”
okay now what about his diciples?
John 20:27-29 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
but by the way a Muslim is just talking to you to weaken your faith.... and he is not doing it to quench his thirst for Christianity... so if i were you i would just not talk much about religion! this I'm saying from the many experiences i had with Muslims... and I've been persuaded by many ways to enter their faith... they've got some interesting tack ticks... so just don't talk much about religion, if talk to him at all!
hey everyone thanks again for ur replies...i have to be cautious with this dude cuz he might try to convert me ur right...he said (exact quote):
"you told me in your last email that quran confirmed that jesus is GOd.but do not forget that Allah said clearly that whose who think that GOd is three are missguided."
Comments
To help:
St. Matthew 7:21: St. Matthew 16: 15-18: Also St. Mark 8:27-29: St. Luke 9:20: St. Luke 10:22: St. John Chapter 5, but especially: St. John 6: 46-48: St. John 14:9-13: There are many others. But as I say, beware, it is a Protestant habit to ask Copts to cite biblical passages - remember we rely also on the tradition of the Church which has always held that Our Lord was the Christ, the only-begotten Son of God.
Hope that helped.
in Christ,
Anglian
was it something i said...
This subject has been discussed before in the forum and here were my replies:
http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php?topic=5731.msg76535#msg76535
the quotes are mainly from the NT, the OT has the prophecies about the Savior. Almost all were fulfilled by Christ and the few remaining will on the end of time when He will come back in full glory to judge all evil and reward all the good.
Regarding the question where in the Bible Jesus Christ clearly said He is God (and the Only Begotten Son of the Most High) they are many. In fact He was condemned by the Jews at that time to be caught, interrogated then delivered to Pilatus to be executed because of this very reason.
Hope this helps,
GBU
As far as you are concerned, I think you should look into the Bible yourself and read the passages and long commentaries and meditate on what it means that Christ is God?
but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God.
its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
hey guys thanks for all ur replies!
but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God.
its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
The Son is not the Father but the Son is one with the Father (one in essence/consubstantial), they are one, yet they are 2 distinct hypostases of the Trinity. And yes, it will be hard to explain this to someone who thinks the Trinity is polytheism.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness,
hey guys thanks for all ur replies!
but he wants where Jesus claims to be GOD not the son of God.
its gonna b hard for me to explain how when Jesus says He is the Son, that it also means He is the Father
Dear jsangel,
Obviously he is picking up on his own faith's misunderstanding of the Trinity.
St. John 1:1-2: 1 John 2:22-24: Christianity is a Trinitarian Faith, in the Words of the Creed: He is 'of one substance with the Father', as He is with the Holy Spirit - He is very God of very God - begotten eternally of His Father before all worlds. He is not God the Father, who property is that He begets, He is the Son, the Word, the Logos, whose property is to be begotten and to become Incarnate by the Virgin Mary.
Muslims, refusing to comprehend the Trinity, confuse Father and Son, and say that the Son cannot be God - but the Godhead is the Trinity, of which the Son is part. I suspect that your Muslim friend is speaking from the common Muslim misunderstanding of these things.
The notion that everything must be proved 'from the Bible' fundamentally misunderstands the origin and status of the Bible in our Faith. Unlike the Koran, the Bible is not made up by one man who claims that it contains all that is needful. It is the record, by various hand, of the doings of Our Lord and of His Apostles. It makes no claim to record all that the Incarnate Word said and did - indeed, quite the opposite, as in John 21:25: So, there is a double misunderstanding by the Muslims. If he wants to get to grips with the True Faith he will have to grasp the idea of the Adorable Trinity, and see that the Godhead is not a simple 'Monad' but a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We do not say, as the heretics say, that the Father IS the Son, or that the Son is the Father, we say that they are, with the Holy Ghost, the Trinity. This is declared in the Bible, and it is explained by the Church. Orthodox Christianity cannot be contained in sola sciptura.
Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers; which is, as others have said, possibly what he wants.
In Christ,
Anglian
"you told me in your last email that quran confirmed that jesus is GOd.but do not forget that Allah said clearly that whose who think that GOd is three are missguided."
GBU and p4m and my weakness
/
mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ