› ›

Holy Spirit

f753789f753789
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
i have a question regarding the fraction that is said during the apostles fast, in the black liturgy book page 405 it says:
"this is He who wen u asked ur holy disciples saying who do men say that i am? proclaimed saying u r the Christ the son of the living God the savior of the world.  blessed r u peter for flesh and blood has not revealed this to u but the spirit of God dwelling in u."

my quesion is, how did peter have the spirit of God with him without having received the Holy Spirit yet?
-another question that arises is, did pple in the old testament or any1 for the matter up until the day of pentecost or until they were baptised in the new testament by St.John the baptist have the Holy Spiri?
-did pple get the Holy Spirit wen St. John baptised them? or only wen Christ baptised?
-also wat was the difference of baptism then and baptism now? (it seems as tho it was only water then..now it has myron and prayers and all this stuff)
     
pls inform me if there is in anything that needs clarification
thanx in advace

pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ

Comments

  • jydeaconjydeacon
    if you go to the exact verse where that is taken from the Bible it says Father not Holy Spirit if i'm not mistaken. But to answer your question, He could have been moved by the Holy Spirit to see that Christ was the Christ. And yes People in the old testament did have the Holy Spirit, as a matter of fact everyone until a certain point (Ch. 6 in Genesis to be exact) The Lord Says "My Spirit shall not dwell with man any longer" so yes people did have Him but not all. Just Prophets and Kings in the old testament as well as judges(i think) had the Holy Spirit with them because they were God's annointed ones.

    I'm not sure if the recieved the Holy Spirit when John baptized them, but christ never baptized anyone. Actually nothing really is different from the baptisms then and the baptisms now(from the apostolic times that is). The only difference i can think of is that the Holy Spirit was only recieved by the laying of hands and not myron, myron was created because the apostles could not be everywhere at once to lay there hands on everyone.

    God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
  • pp
    1) Peter did not have the Spirit of God...rather, Jesus showed Peter that he was the Son of God, and he believed in Him. Jesus's teachings and miracles proved to Peter that surely He was the Son of God, and then, God gave Peter the COURAGE to proclaim that Jesus was the Christ, just as the martyrs did.

    2) I agree with jydeacon.

    3) Baptism is baptism...the priests nowadays, of whom their ranks are lower than John, successfully baptize others. So, yes, through John, they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

    4) The actual setup is the same (except for the Myron, as jydeacon said).
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark

    I'm not sure if the recieved the Holy Spirit when John baptized them

    Most definitely, St. John the Baptist did not baptize with the Holy Spirit to the person.  It is clear in the Holy Scriptures that John declares:  "there is one mightier than me coming, Who will baptize you with water and Spirit".

    The baptism by John was symbolic as a calling for repentance and the 'Coming of the Kingdom of God'.

    When John was imprisoned, he declared:  "He must increase and I must decrease".

    In the Orthodox Creed, we declare the Tripartite aspect of the Trinity relative to Creation:

    a)  Truly we believe in One God, God the Father, Creator of the visible and the invisible...

    b)  ...and in One Lord, Jesus Christ, the Only-Begotten Son of the Father, by Whom all things were made...

    c)  We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord Giver of Life,....

    Hence, the living aspect of our being relates to the Holy Spirit, this is in the physical sense and in the spiritual sense.

    In the very first verse of Genesis, the declaration was made:  "and the Spirit of God was upon the waters".

    The Holy Spirit being a part of the physical existence, and in the regard of Peter, that Presence and Inspiration is what gave him the courage to make that declaration.

    As a side-note, the Holy Spirit should always be referred to in the defined personal pronouns of:  Him, He, His, etc., and never ever ever never ever as: "IT".

    I apologize I do not have my Bible with me to give the exact verses, but they are so well known, I do not think anyone will detract from these comments.
  • ChristrulesChristrules
    1) What Jydecon said.
    2) Yes People in the old testament had the Holy Spirit, I.E. David the prophet (in psalm 50 he says: do not take your Holy Spirit from me.)
    3) St. John the baptist only baptized with water, it says this in the Bible. (I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Mat 3:11)

    Hope i helped and if anything is wrong please correct me.

    Pray for me a sinner
    May the prayers of Pope Kyrollos be with us all Amen
    Glory be to Our GOD Amen!
  • f753789f753789
    hello every1,
    more questions :-\ ...sorry
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6407.msg84652#msg84652 date=1206675782]
    I'm not sure if the recieved the Holy Spirit when John baptized them, but christ never baptized anyone.

    u r right Jesus did not baptize any1, i just confirmed it from another source
    so since the Lord Jesus Christ did not baptise.. wat is meant by the verse that "Christrules" posted? how is it that He will baptise with Holy Spirit and fire?

    in the OSB commentary on the bottom for Acts 2:3 it says "the Holy Spirit coming in the appearance of divided tongues, as of fire fulfills the prophecy of John the baptist that Christ would baptize u with the holy spirit and fire" ..this seems to almost be an answer to my question but can some1 confirm this b/c a wise person told me to use discretion with the OSB

    [quote author=aem581 link=topic=6407.msg84657#msg84657 date=1206713803]
    3) Baptism is baptism...the priests nowadays, of whom their ranks are lower than John, successfully baptize others. So, yes, through John, they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=6407.msg84658#msg84658 date=1206715201]

    I'm not sure if the recieved the Holy Spirit when John baptized them

    Most definitely, St. John the Baptist did not baptize with the Holy Spirit to the person.  It is clear in the Holy Scriptures that John declares:  "there is one mightier than me coming, Who will baptize you with water and Spirit".

    The baptism by John was symbolic as a calling for repentance and the 'Coming of the Kingdom of God'

    [quote author=Christrules link=topic=6407.msg84665#msg84665 date=1206718858]
    3) St. John the baptist only baptized with water, it says this in the Bible. (I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Mat 3:11)

    the answers contradict..does anybody KNOW if St John baptised with the Holy Spirit?
    b/c from the verse "Christrules" posted it implies that he did not baptise with the Holy Spirit, but if that is true then wat was the signifigance of St. Johns baptism? wat did the pple recieve or wat benefit was it in getting baptised if they didnt recieve the Holy Spirit?
    -again..sorry for all the questions guys..i hope nobodys annoyed or irritated with me

    pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
    -sister in Christ
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    By John declaring that: 

    "I baptize with water; but there is one among you whom you do not recognize, the one who is coming after me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to untie."  (Jn 1:26-28)

    and clearly he also states:

    "I did not know him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'  (Jn 1:33)

    Clearly, by these statements, St. John declares he is baptizing with water only.

    His baptism was solely a call for repentance.
Sign In or Register to comment.