Hi All,
As you all know, I'm living in France with my wife.
We live in a really lively area in central Paris. There are no Coptic CHurches there. However, we live very close to some catholic Churches. Yesterday, we went to attend a Catholic prayer meeting that's just 2 mins walk way from our home. We knew it was a bit charismatic before going.
I know the Church servants very well, we are all friends. So, I just creeped to the front of the Church to hang-out with them.
THen, they started praying. I know this sounds silly, but there was no agpeya. I mean... their prayers were so emotional.
Is that bad? Ya3ni does our church recommend this?
Because, to be honest with u, I personally don't like that. Yes, there are times when I pray from the heart, but I find the words of the Agpeya perfect. I mean, if I feel that satan is tempting me, there is Psalm i can pray for that. If I wish to thank God for ANYTHING, there is a Psalm I can pray from for that. If I feel that I am all alone and have no friends, there is a Psalm I can pray from for that.
Before, I used to think the tasbeha/Psalmody was the best book in the world. Its dropped to 2nd place recently, and i'd definately put the Agpeya before it now.
Anyway, then they started singing catholic songs. The songs were OK. I even have a CD of the hymns they sung, but there was something missing.. i don't know. I didnt feel anything there.
Has anyone else felt that way?
I mean, the BEST time I ever prayed in my life in a Catholic Church, and I left feeling at peace was when the Church was empty.
Has anyone else felt that way?
ANyway, then they started to talk in tongues. Oh man... they just go on and on singing nonsense. It sounded gibberish to me, but I wrote down what they said, and was wondering if there was anyone here that was gifted enough to know what it means?
Here's what they said:
... "shai shai shai.. shalalalallaa. shai shai, ahhhh ahhh ahhhh shrah shrah. sharara-RAI RAI ahahhahahahahahahaha"
For me, its the song that a cat makes when u don't give her food. Maybe u can ask your cat? I don't know. Or even, if u yourself speak gibberish, can you tell me what this means. I thought St. Paul said that someone has to interpret this when you speak in tongues?
Anyway, I don't know what to do? We really wanted to attend a prayer meeting. Neither I nor my wife are fluent in arabic, and there are no COptic Churches where we live.
What do we do?
Comments
Ok Vas, I commend you on the effort of going to this Catholic prayer meeting - that in itself required some "guts" especially if you were unsure about the Churches stance on this.
But Vas I'm sure you also know that our Church is the True Bride of Christ... there is no salvation outside of the Orthodox Church, ya 3amou and you also know that.
You are obviously in a tough situation - no COCs around, and surrounded by Catholic churches. My advice: the best thing you could obviously do is try and stick to our Orthodox Church, because as you yourself said, that certain something will only be found where you are used to it, in the Church of our tradition; after going being a tasbeha veteran, and knowing many alhan, and have attended thousands of liturgies, you are unlikely to take kindly to "Shalalalalalal lalalalla" etc.
So here is the advice:
a) Do you drive Vas? Because if you do, even if its a one hour journey every week, you could drive to a COC.
b) Failing that... try researching into Oriental Orthodox Chruches in the area...it still won't be the same as our traditions, but you will at least have unity of belief.
c) I suppose failing that... then you are stuck with this Catholic Church which isn't the greatest of things.
Incidentally, how many Copts are living in you area? If there is enough, even a few families (like us here in Margate), propose to your Bishop to build a church, and extend the diocese to serve our community in the diaspora, for the Glory of His Name.
pray for me
joe
You know, there was a time that I only attended a Catholic Church. Whenever I led a prayer group or whatever (when they asked me), i either sang COptic Hymns (lol and I freestyled. ya3ni.. i did wahtever song i wanted), or i prayed from the words of the COC Fathers.
With all due respect to the Catholics, the spiritual food there is becoming really small league.
They have hardly any good speakers. Each Church has its own dogma. LITERALLY! One man will stand up and talk about how good it is to speak gibberish, and if u don't speak gibberish then don't worry cos God still loves u. Another will say "Fornicate all u want, so long as u never lose faith in God, and its not with your cousin, and that you use no condoms".
Its really a strange place to go and pray.
There are hardly ANY Copts in my area. I live in the center of paris Joe. All Copts work and live outside paris. Unfortunately the community is not like the UK. They are all illegal immigrants (95% at least!).
So, sure, we drive to the COC (in the suburbs). The ONLY way there IS by car. This we can do once a week. Its not an issue. But what about weekdays?? What about those nice prayer meetings/bible study groups that one can have during the week??
What do we do for those???
I attended the Serbian Orthodox Church once, and they don't study the Bible, they just read the Philokalia. Which, is not a bad book.. its interesting.. but its not what I was looking for.
All the Churches in the suburbs of paris were disused warehouses. Its a real shame.
As for prayer groups; how long does it take by car to go to those COC? Do they hold prayer meetings during the week or Bible studies? Cos if they do problem solved.
If not... (and I have a feeling of foreboding thats telling me its not) then you yourself have to pray with your familly at home. Every day at least pray Compline together before you sleep... turn your house into a church Vas, and God's blessings will heap upon you, and although its not the same as holding them with people your own age its a start, because frankly I wasn't too sure of the Catholic church services, and the stuff you've added makes it seem almost alarming.
pray for me
joe
Well at least you have the basis of going to the Liturgy once a week in a COC.
As for prayer groups; how long does it take by car to go to those COC? Do they hold prayer meetings during the week or Bible studies? Cos if they do problem solved.
If not... (and I have a feeling of foreboding thats telling me its not) then you yourself have to pray with your familly at home. Every day at least pray Compline together before you sleep... turn your house into a church Vas, and God's blessings will heap upon you, and although its not the same as holding them with people your own age its a start, because frankly I wasn't too sure of the Catholic church services, and the stuff you've added makes it seem almost alarming.
pray for me
joe
Oh yeah man, its what we've been doing for ages.
Its just, we're both reading NT (St Paul etc), and frankly, it would be super if abouna or someone could just give us his contemplations on this. I asked on this site, and it takes ages for people to answer.
I CANNOT drive to any CoC during the weekday. Never. I come home, park the car, and then i'd take the metro or walk. You cannot drive to the suburbs in Paris after 6 PM. Forget it! To drive into paris - its a breeze... but going from center to suburb, its a nightmare. Its just not on.
As for the abouna thing.... have you tried talking to a Bishop over there... getting an abouna to come round peoples houses because there are soo few of you?
pray for me
joe
pray for me
joe
Oh and the contemplation solution...... books man... read H.H. Contemplations on the Resurrection this time of year.... and there are books by Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty that are great also... and don't give me the excuse that you can't find any --- go online.... there are loads online, even on this website.
pray for me
joe
Yeah Joe,
I agree - but there's something missing. We need a community man.
We need something. Its just so dead two Coptic Christians in the middle of paris surrounded by millions of Catholics.
We need "sharika" - communion, community, unity... get the picture?
All we have are just coptic people that cannot speak a word of French. They are all illegal, and are not interested in anything spiritual. Khaliss.
Even those that are French (who are Coptic), they are so weired. Ya3ni, i met this woman who told me that her 27 year old daughter goes to have the Holy Communion when she can, .."and even though I insist she has breakfast before going, she sometimes goes without having ONE BITE to eat".
I said to her: "Wow.. that's amazing tante.. God bless u both".
We are just 2 Copts in the middle of nowhere. Yes, its very cosy, very romantic, very very... but I miss my sunday school teachers from the UK. I miss their valuable input. I really enjoyed attending sunday school or prayer meetings in my Coptic Church back in the UK. Our khoddam were remarkable. I honestly (NO KIDDING) would have paid them for their contemplations and knowledge they shared with us on the Bible.
I know things will change soon. Our FoC in France is awesome. Im sure he'll be eager to start more activities. I don't think though that he's the problem. The issue is that the congregation in Paris aren't interested in activities. They just need contacts so they can get more work, or sell more pizza to.
pray for me
joe
Well I must say Paris sounds grim... but if things are on the up, then thats all good. God bless you guys over their and help you build your community.
pray for me
joe
Wait a sec Joe,
Being Coptic in paris is grim.. but not paris. Its way better than the UK.
pray for me
joe
lol thats what I meant ;D...... you eat frogs there don't you (although I'll be honest they did taste nice roasted with garlic)
pray for me
joe
No habibi, I don't eat frogs..
Do u eat Roast Beef then?
pray for me
joe
http://site.voila.fr/eucharistie
*** Take a look under the heading FRANCE
http://coptic.org/europe.htm
http://eocf.free.fr/
I remember going there with my cousin by public transport, and it wasnt so far, but that of course depends on where u live...
i know many youth who come every friday evening to our youth meeting at church, and they travel between 30 minutes to 1,5 hours...God will provide for those who need spiritual food, even if it takes some effort from our side. Some people live 5 minutes from church, and they can't be bothered. Strange world we live in ::)
May God provide for your spiritual needs quickly.
Remember me in your prayers.
Wait a minute QT, isn't the church of ville juif kinda in the centre of Paris?
I remember going there with my cousin by public transport, and it wasnt so far, but that of course depends on where u live...
i know many youth who come every friday evening to our youth meeting at church, and they travel between 30 minutes to 1,5 hours...God will provide for those who need spiritual food, even if it takes some effort from our side. Some people live 5 minutes from church, and they can't be bothered. Strange world we live in ::)
Matt, Villejuif is the suburbs. I live in downtown paris... its so far.
Sure, we can go by car etc. Anyway, they don't have prayer groups in French.Only in Arabic.
If indeed there in no Coptic Church around, go to the next best thing: an Eastern Orthodox Church! I think attending a Catholic church should be a 'last resort' of sorts, personally. In your case, I'd go to that Serbian Church, try to take what you can, see what God is telling you there. Surely, it is better than 'shai shai rai rai', right? And at least, they have solid, Orthodox dogmas and theology (Vatican II, anyone?), as well as an Orthodox perspective of prayer and study of the Bible. So, that is my opinion.
May God provide for your spiritual needs quickly.
Remember me in your prayers.
Hey Severus,
Eastern Orthodox? We tried that, its just its always in their native language. What they say may be of spiritual benefit, but we won't understand a word of it.
No no.. the best thing is to pray in our apartment and pray for a Church in Paris. We need something central. Something for the youth. Heck... even if we rent a catholic Church for a few sundays.
May God repose him in the paradise of joy.
pray for me
joe