[quote author=Hezekiel link=topic=6650.msg89535#msg89535 date=1212704139] In biblical times, barren marriage was always blamed on the woman, whose womb was said to have been closed by God. Such attitude toward infertility persisted in traditions and cultures where the women are/were oppressed . The medical world is also partly to be blamed.Medical Research on the male reproductive system has showed that a myriad of troubles can plague the male's baby-making ability. Today about half of all infertile couples, the male factor is a contributing cause, if not perhaps the only one.Thus, Infertility is a medical problem that can affect both sexes.
And the Lord says in Luke 23:29 'Blessed is the barren woman, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!'
Eg: Abraham never divorced Sarah,therefore,it is considered adultary to divorce on such grounds and re-marry
Hezekial,thank you for your insights. I could not agree anymore. I have a question,though. Patriarch Abraham did take another woman and she begat him a child.As such,there was no need for him to divorce his wife Sarah . Is it safe to conclude,that he was polygamous, and therefore, committed a sin,eventhough there was no commandments that forbade it? How about king Solomon who is said to have had hundrets of concubines?
First of all, I would like to state that it WAS normal for a man to have more than one wife in those days. However, Abraham did not wish to have a child from Hagar (she was not his wife, she was his concubine/servant). However, Sarah insisted because she was "barren". So to answer your question, it was not a sin. Furthermore, if there was no commandment that forbade it, then there is no sin. It is like teaching a child right from wrong. You can punish him only after you have told him what is right and what is wrong. If you did not tell him, there is no sound reason to punish him. Likewise, God treats us. St. Paul says that we are condemned by the law. Thus, the law is what separates right from wrong and puts a name on it. Without the law, there technically is no sin.
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=6650.msg89562#msg89562 date=1212718290] Is it safe to conclude,that he was polygamous, and therefore, committed a sin,eventhough there was no commandments that forbade it? How about king Solomon who is said to have had hundrets of concubines?
Mozes,the easy answer to your question is YES,THEY BOTH SINNED!
There are many who try to justify the practice of polygamy using the examples of Abraham , Jacob King Solomon and other biblical figures.To start off with , it is important to understand that Abraham never married anyone but his wife Sarah. Abraham had complete confidence in God. Sarah did not share Abraham's trust, she blamed God for her barreness .She decided to take matters into her own hands. In Genesis 16:2 ,Sara declared " I can build a family through her".The talk is about her Egyptian handmaiden;Hagar. Historians argue ,Sara proposal was an ancient custom confirmed by the code of Hammurabi. The chief wife had authority over children born to a slave wife. So Abraham agreed to what his wife suggested.Thus, Sara took the Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. Sara's action played a role in Abraham's willingness to be tempted into producing a child with someone other than his wife. As the NT states "all have sinned", it is evident that even Abrahama the great servant of God sinned in this respect too, regardless of when the 10 commandments were written.There are also other instances where Abraham lied to a king to save his life by saying that Sara was his sister.However, God forgave him these sins that resulted out of weakenss and fear, as they were not committed out of rebellion to God. For us, there is a lesson to be learnt from here;that the consequences of polygamy could be disastorous. When Hagar found out that she was pregnant, she started despising her mistress.Sara's then began mistreating her .War of jeleausy and envy was the order of the day, until the Hagar was forced to flee.When Isaac was born,Sara wanted Hagar to go for good,so that her son does not have share in the inheritance.The resulting disappointment and strife indicate that Sara's scheme was not God's will and that Ismael was not Abraham's promised son.The strife between Sara and Hagar has carried one through generations that the offsprings of Issac,-the Jews,- and the offspring of Ismael ,-the Arabs'-are still at each others throat, as a result of a single terrible act that allowed reason(Sara's) to prevail over faith (Abraham's). As for king Solomon who began his kingdom as a righteous king changed during the course of his life so much so that the accumulation of his wives in pursuit of happiness and pleasure offended God .The bible testifies his sins by recording that "Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord"
Christ4Life writes:
St. Paul says that we are condemned by the law. Thus, the law is what separates right from wrong and puts a name on it. Without the law, there technically is no sin.
This is absolutely wrong. What you are saying is that, all men who lived prior to the establishment of the 10 commandments did not sin,because there was no law?? It makes no sense.here are some examples I would like you to ponder on: A) When Adam and eve fell from God's Grace,they knew right from wrong. Further,the bible declares that God rejected Cain's sacrifice.However, it does not explain why.But the explanation is found,when seen in the context of the Israelite sacrifical laws.The scriptures state that firstborn animals should be offered to God and the first fruits of a crop dedicated at harvest time. Abel carefully selects the offering he makes to God,but Cain does not.Now,The first time the bible mentions Sin is in Genesis 4:7 " If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it". Here, sin is depicted as an animal waiting to strike.Cain still has the chance to lead a righteous life,but he must overcome his envious thoughts.When God says in Genesis 4:7 "if you do well", the words of the Lord imply that Cain knew his offering was not acceptable.Only the best gifts should be dedicated to God.But Cain's jealousy destroys all family bonds of affection and leads to a wicked act.His sin is greater than that of Adam and Eve, for he was condemned to wander in a barren land where he can not grow crops.This punishment is worse than Adam's,since Adam was only sentenced to work a land choked with thorns and thistles.
B) If your argument holds water, then explain to me why God destroyed the people of Sodom and Gomorrah?
c) Why did God destroy the earth by Flood.
Etc ,Etc,...
There is nothing in the 10 commandments ,that were not known to men of Israel at that time.
Hi everyone. Thanks for all the responses. This topic was the lowest priority. I've written others. I am going to lock it until I get time to read all the comments on here. In the meantime, there are issues that should take precedence. "Cases for Divorce" was just a "nice to know" - but not essential. It doesnt effect me or the CHurch in anyway. (but its just nice to know what the cases are). I wrote that to answer a few protestant people.
Anyway, I'll lock until i get time to read all your responses.
Comments
Mea culpa,Done!
Severus,
Mea culpa,Done!
Thanks :)
In biblical times, barren marriage was always blamed on the woman, whose womb was said to have been closed by God. Such attitude toward infertility persisted in traditions and cultures where the women are/were oppressed . The medical world is also partly to be blamed.Medical Research on the male reproductive system has showed that a myriad of troubles can plague the male's baby-making ability. Today about half of all infertile couples, the male factor is a contributing cause, if not perhaps the only one.Thus, Infertility is a medical problem that can affect both sexes.
And the Lord says in Luke 23:29 'Blessed is the barren woman, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!'
Eg: Abraham never divorced Sarah,therefore,it is considered adultary to divorce on such grounds and re-marry
Hezekial,thank you for your insights. I could not agree anymore. I have a question,though. Patriarch Abraham did take another woman and she begat him a child.As such,there was no need for him to divorce his wife Sarah . Is it safe to conclude,that he was polygamous, and therefore, committed a sin,eventhough there was no commandments that forbade it? How about king Solomon who is said to have had hundrets of concubines?
However, Abraham did not wish to have a child from Hagar (she was not his wife, she was his concubine/servant). However, Sarah insisted because she was "barren". So to answer your question, it was not a sin. Furthermore, if there was no commandment that forbade it, then there is no sin. It is like teaching a child right from wrong. You can punish him only after you have told him what is right and what is wrong. If you did not tell him, there is no sound reason to punish him. Likewise, God treats us. St. Paul says that we are condemned by the law. Thus, the law is what separates right from wrong and puts a name on it. Without the law, there technically is no sin.
Is it safe to conclude,that he was polygamous, and therefore, committed a sin,eventhough there was no commandments that forbade it? How about king Solomon who is said to have had hundrets of concubines?
Mozes,the easy answer to your question is YES,THEY BOTH SINNED!
There are many who try to justify the practice of polygamy using the examples of Abraham , Jacob King Solomon and other biblical figures.To start off with , it is important to understand that Abraham never married anyone but his wife Sarah. Abraham had complete confidence in God. Sarah did not share Abraham's trust, she blamed God for her barreness .She decided to take matters into her own hands. In Genesis 16:2 ,Sara declared " I can build a family through her".The talk is about her Egyptian handmaiden;Hagar. Historians argue ,Sara proposal was an ancient custom confirmed by the code of Hammurabi. The chief wife had authority over children born to a slave wife. So Abraham agreed to what his wife suggested.Thus, Sara took the Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. Sara's action played a role in Abraham's willingness to be tempted into producing a child with someone other than his wife. As the NT states "all have sinned", it is evident that even Abrahama the great servant of God sinned in this respect too, regardless of when the 10 commandments were written.There are also other instances where Abraham lied to a king to save his life by saying that Sara was his sister.However, God forgave him these sins that resulted out of weakenss and fear, as they were not committed out of rebellion to God. For us, there is a lesson to be learnt from here;that the consequences of polygamy could be disastorous. When Hagar found out that she was pregnant, she started despising her mistress.Sara's then began mistreating her .War of jeleausy and envy was the order of the day, until the Hagar was forced to flee.When Isaac was born,Sara wanted Hagar to go for good,so that her son does not have share in the inheritance.The resulting disappointment and strife indicate that Sara's scheme was not God's will and that Ismael was not Abraham's promised son.The strife between Sara and Hagar has carried one through generations that the offsprings of Issac,-the Jews,- and the offspring of Ismael ,-the Arabs'-are still at each others throat, as a result of a single terrible act that allowed reason(Sara's) to prevail over faith (Abraham's).
As for king Solomon who began his kingdom as a righteous king changed during the course of his life so much so that the accumulation of his wives in pursuit of happiness and pleasure offended God .The bible testifies his sins by recording that "Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord"
Christ4Life writes: This is absolutely wrong. What you are saying is that, all men who lived prior to the establishment of the 10 commandments did not sin,because there was no law?? It makes no sense.here are some examples I would like you to ponder on:
A) When Adam and eve fell from God's Grace,they knew right from wrong. Further,the bible declares that God rejected Cain's sacrifice.However, it does not explain why.But the explanation is found,when seen in the context of the Israelite sacrifical laws.The scriptures state that firstborn animals should be offered to God and the first fruits of a crop dedicated at harvest time. Abel carefully selects the offering he makes to God,but Cain does not.Now,The first time the bible mentions Sin is in Genesis 4:7 " If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it". Here, sin is depicted as an animal waiting to strike.Cain still has the chance to lead a righteous life,but he must overcome his envious thoughts.When God says in Genesis 4:7 "if you do well", the words of the Lord imply that Cain knew his offering was not acceptable.Only the best gifts should be dedicated to God.But Cain's jealousy destroys all family bonds of affection and leads to a wicked act.His sin is greater than that of Adam and Eve, for he was condemned to wander in a barren land where he can not grow crops.This punishment is worse than Adam's,since Adam was only sentenced to work a land choked with thorns and thistles.
B) If your argument holds water, then explain to me why God destroyed the people of Sodom and Gomorrah?
c) Why did God destroy the earth by Flood.
Etc ,Etc,...
There is nothing in the 10 commandments ,that were not known to men of Israel at that time.
Thanks for all the responses. This topic was the lowest priority. I've written others. I am going to lock it until I get time to read all the comments on here. In the meantime, there are issues that should take precedence.
"Cases for Divorce" was just a "nice to know" - but not essential. It doesnt effect me or the CHurch in anyway.
(but its just nice to know what the cases are). I wrote that to answer a few protestant people.
Anyway, I'll lock until i get time to read all your responses.
Thanks,