Hello all.
Please could you help me understand a point here.
What is the difference between our spirits and our souls? H.H. Pope Shenouda often talks about our spirits, and how repentence purifies our spirits.. (or something along those lines). But then what is our souls? What is the difference between our souls and spirits.
Do all humans have spirits and souls or just Coptic Orthodox Christians?
I mean, does one gain a spirit, or is one born with a spirit???
Also, do animals have spirits?
Comments
Our soul is "the seat of our personality". The elements which make us human belong to the soul. Genesis 12:5;46:27
"The spirit and the body are merged in the soul which, in turn, forms the organ of our personality."
forgive me for now
pray for me
joe
im really busy at the moment, ill answer at length when i can, but the answer to your question is in the book by H.H. "God and Man".
forgive me for now
pray for me
joe
Joe, you're amazing!!!!!!!!!
I cannot believe you know all this.
Is the book online?
and by the way, if you want books by H.H. in French online, i found a site that has a couple of them...
The original term for Soul in Hebrew is 'Nepsch' and for Spirit 'Ruwah'.The 2 terms are similar in Geez .From here, I can derive that Soul means the life,the living being ,the enitre nature we have now until death,while 'RuH' is the breath,the mind,the spirit,the immortal component that departs to heaven after the end of Life on earth.
Soul = life or living being
Spirit = immortal component.
Then you are saying that our souls die after death??? Yet our spirits live?
Now, what I need to know is this:
Do all humans have spirits?? and if our soul dies after death (physical death) and this is the seat of our personalities, then it means that we have NO personality when we die. Which makes sense.. we're dead. Well.. we definately have less to say, that's for sure. lol
I don't get it.. i thought that our personalities still live in Paradise?? Not our bodies???
This is really confusing.
Can someone get us real Orthodox links to this subject????
I actually just heard a sermon about this. Basically, the soul is the physical life of the being, the personality, and the seat of the emotions. The spirit is the immortal part of us, the breath of God that gives us our existence in the first place. Every human has a spirit, because it is the only thing that separates us from animals. This means that, yes, animals have both a body and a soul, but no spirit. However, the spirit is not to be confused with the Holy Spirit, that which is given to Christians after baptism and chrismation. Thus, not all humans have the Holy Spirit, but all have a spirit. I hope this is helpful, but I must admit that although I am trying my best to quote this priest verbatim, the information still seems suspect to me. Anyway, I hope I'm corrected if I've misspoken.
Best,
Taio
But what happens to our souls when we die? It doesn't go to heaven??
Our souls were represented as the seats of our personality. When we die, what happens? It means we have no personality?? What are we then?? Just spirits?? Do our spirits have intellect, can they witness the angels.. can our spirits sing??
Do we have any intelligence after we die??
Do you understand my question???
Here's a direct quote: "Naturally a believer should understand that in Christ he is a new creation. As such, the Holy Spirit indwells his spirit; and this together with the death of Jesus actively working in his body, can equip the believer to live a holy life."
When we are Baptized and have the Eucharist, this enables our spirit to commune with the Holy Spirit and live holy. But of course, I think one has to acknowledge and accept these blessings. It takes time and patience to understand God's message.
Have to say, I wish one of you brother's had this book. Apparently i was supposed to get 'The Spiritual Woman', this one gave me a head ache :) :).
It seems that the "spirit" is the highest moral power of the one soul, which gives life to the body. As our bodies will also be raised in a glorified form, our soul must be immortal. As Athenagoras said, "an eternal soul united with the body", and elsewhere in St. Peter's First Epistle, "the salvation of your souls".
If the soul dies with the body, Lazarus could not be raised. In the parable of the Rich Man and poor Lazarus, recognition of Poor Abraham would not have been possible.
In the EOC, there is a discussion on whether our souls by nature and essence immortal- or did they become immortal because of the grace of God- or its uplifting by the spirit. In this way, it is possible that while animals have the same soul element as us, the lack of spirit powering the soul means they have no moral function, or potential for immortality?
It is a confusing, granted. But, the soul is for eternity.
And Mary said,
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
BTW, I was only trying to simplify it using the original semetic terms.Would you agree that man is composed of the soul,spirit and the body? I think,that is what the bible says.
I will get back to you later.
QT,man where do you get this questions from?
BTW, I was only trying to simplify it using the original semetic terms.Would you agree that man is composed of the soul,spirit and the body? I think,that is what the bible says.
I will get back to you later.
Hez,
I was reading some homily/contemplations by the Pope somewhere... he used the term "spirit" and then "soul".
Now, i think its obvious how I've taken tasbeha.org: Throughout my reading, if there's something i don't understand, i create a thread for it (and depend on the kindness of your hearts to answer it).
I'm all alone here in Paris. We have no prayer meetings, no graduate meetings, no sunday school meetings.. nothing. We read the Bible at home. Now, what do i do if I come across a term or verse I do not understand?? I HAVE to ask on here.
[b]
I've read everyone's posts, and I'm still confused. What is the difference really between soul and spirit for humans, and what is the effect of baptism on each of these entities???
God reward u a 1000 fold for this link.
Its great.
I guess we should get the book "what is man" by H.H.
Listen, i'm not lazy, but unless amazon sell this book, I'm stuck. Can someone scan it and upload it for me??
I have a small question here:
It says: So, all animals and humans have souls, but the spirit is ONLY common in Human Beings.
OK. So, what part of us is sanctified in baptism? is it our spirits or our souls??
And when we die, what goes to heaven? Our spirits, or our souls??? Or both??
Also, for those that are not baptised, what is the state of their spirit? is it just as that of anyone baptised ANd practicing??
I mean, if the spirit is related to divine communion, what is its state if there IS no communion with God???
Thanks,
But here is H.H. Papa Shenouda's online e-book library.: http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/pope/index.html#books
Where do our souls go? If our souls are part of our bodies, then does this mean that this dies with our bodies?
So, our spirits is what is lifted to heaven?
But no one yet answered the questions:
* If our spirits go to heaven, then what part of us is that?? Do all humans have spirits? or is this something that is only for Christians??
* If our soul is the seat of our personalities, and our souls being "terrestrial" die with the body, then does that mean when we die, we have no personality.
(ok.. i know it sounds kinda funny.. i mean, when we die, we can be pretty boring to talk with (literally dead), but do our personalities remain eternal or does that die when we die?. I mean, when we go to heaven, do we have "experiences" ?? Do we keep the feelings and memories we have in our lives, or are we just entities with no memory of our previous life??
I really would love to know the answers to this.
Thanks
Send me a message with your address, and I can post you our Christian Orthodox e-Reference Library.
But here is H.H. Papa Shenouda's online e-book library.: http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/pope/index.html#books
if you want, i can post a couple of websites that (when combined) have tons of books by H.H. ... let me know if you want the links...
Can someone just explain: when we die, what happens to us?
Where do our souls go? If our souls are part of our bodies, then does this mean that this dies with our bodies?
So, our spirits is what is lifted to heaven?
But no one yet answered the questions:
* If our spirits go to heaven, then what part of us is that?? Do all humans have spirits? or is this something that is only for Christians??
* If our soul is the seat of our personalities, and our souls being "terrestrial" die with the body, then does that mean when we die, we have no personality.
(ok.. i know it sounds kinda funny.. i mean, when we die, we can be pretty boring to talk with (literally dead), but do our personalities remain eternal or does that die when we die?. I mean, when we go to heaven, do we have "experiences" ?? Do we keep the feelings and memories we have in our lives, or are we just entities with no memory of our previous life??
I really would love to know the answers to this.
Thanks
Our body will become "redeemed" and it will be glorified into a "celestial body". Our souls do not die with the body.
Can someone just explain: when we die, what happens to us?
Where do our souls go? If our souls are part of our bodies, then does this mean that this dies with our bodies?
So, our spirits is what is lifted to heaven?
But no one yet answered the questions:
* If our spirits go to heaven, then what part of us is that?? Do all humans have spirits? or is this something that is only for Christians??
* If our soul is the seat of our personalities, and our souls being "terrestrial" die with the body, then does that mean when we die, we have no personality.
(ok.. i know it sounds kinda funny.. i mean, when we die, we can be pretty boring to talk with (literally dead), but do our personalities remain eternal or does that die when we die?. I mean, when we go to heaven, do we have "experiences" ?? Do we keep the feelings and memories we have in our lives, or are we just entities with no memory of our previous life??
I really would love to know the answers to this.
Thanks
I don't think i read enough, but maybe i do because i can't remember where i read about all the after life experiences, but St. Pachomius online library has some very good information. I think it was St. Anthony's biography that spoke of how after we die our souls head up to heaven, but the Devil is there causing some to look back and get entrapped in his snare and unable to reach heaven.
In the dream, he was very happy with his new form and he asked me to come with him, but as i said , I was too afraid. There was alot of darkness then there was a light in the darkness and my father smiled and headed towards the light and the light engulfed him and then he and the light were gone.
I haven't had another dream like that