Can someone explain to me why God created us for? For what reason? Especially that He knew that Adam & Eve will fall from grace? Why did He do it for??
Why did god create us? If he knew what our outcome is gonna be then why did he create us? If he planed out our life, an he knew what we were gonna do, then why create us?
I know that we have a purpose in life, bas if god already knew this purpose why did he create us?
Why make us go through life and it's painfull moments if he already knew everything? ???
hahah.. that's funny cos, im sitting here with someone and we were dying to see the answer.. and we're SOO confused, and now from your response, we are even MORE confused... hahahah haram 3aleekee ya bentababayasso3aa!!!!!!!
Please! if someone has the answer as to why God decided to create man, especially knowing all the pain and suffering that would happen as a result.. why go through with the idea???
I've always thought of creation as a gift, in that its better to exist than to NOT exist. Who was God to share His love with if He hadn't created us? I like to think of it as a husband and wife - they have an instinct to bear children, to care for them, love them and raise them BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN BORN. Think about your own mother- she longed for you and loved you before you were even conceived! She loved you before she even thought of having you!
Like God, she doesnt NEED a child...but she WANTS a child so she can love it. I like to think that God is exactly the same: He doesn't NEED us by any means, but loved us before He had even created us...and so created us to show us His great love.
Ok, none of that probably made any sense, but I don't tend to make much sense, sorry :D
Look at a pregnant woman. She loves her baby, before he/she even is born. A mother also knows the risk she is putting her child in when she makes the decision to have a child. She knows the baby could hurt himself and die. She knows that he could be born with a disease or catch one later on that could kill him/her. She also knows that he/she could stray away from God and end up in hell after death. Why then does she have a baby?? Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes. God Loved us, so he created us. He wanted us to enjoy paradise, but we ruined it for ourselves. Another example- I love dogs, and I really want one. Why?? I want something to play with, something to love, something to care for, something to watch grow up, something to watch enjoying himself/ herself. When God created us, he wanted to see us happy in paradise ruling over the animals and all the creatures. Get the point yet??
[quote author=LondonCopt link=topic=6839.msg91610#msg91610 date=1214512958] I've always thought of creation as a gift, in that its better to exist than to NOT exist. Who was God to share His love with if He hadn't created us? I like to think of it as a husband and wife - they have an instinct to bear children, to care for them, love them and raise them BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN BORN. Think about your own mother- she longed for you and loved you before you were even conceived! She loved you before she even thought of having you!
Like God, she doesnt NEED a child...but she WANTS a child so she can love it. I like to think that God is exactly the same: He doesn't NEED us by any means, but loved us before He had even created us...and so created us to show us His great love.
Ok, none of that probably made any sense, but I don't tend to make much sense, sorry :D
Thanks.. it made sense to me. I said the same thing to my wife.. and she didnt understand it.When she read your post, she finally understood it. lol
Its a good explanation (i think).
But she wants to know that given the God KNEW the outcome of man.. i.e. that we will be SOO destructive and cause Him misery, (and others too), and that we will obviously fall from grace, then WHY Oh WHy did He go through with His plan?
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg91612#msg91612 date=1214513159] Look at a pregnant woman. She loves her baby, before he/she even is born. A mother also knows the risk she is putting her child in when she makes the decision to have a child. She knows the baby could hurt himself and die. She knows that he could be born with a disease or catch one later on that could kill him/her. She also knows that he/she could stray away from God and end up in hell after death. Why then does she have a baby?? Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes. God Loved us, so he created us. He wanted us to enjoy paradise, but we ruined it for ourselves. Another example- I love dogs, and I really want one. Why?? I want something to play with, something to love, something to care for, something to watch grow up, something to watch enjoying himself/ herself. When God created us, he wanted to see us happy in paradise ruling over the animals and all the creatures. Get the point yet??
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg91612#msg91612 date=1214513159] Look at a pregnant woman. She loves her baby, before he/she even is born. A mother also knows the risk she is putting her child in when she makes the decision to have a child. She knows the baby could hurt himself and die. She knows that he could be born with a disease or catch one later on that could kill him/her. She also knows that he/she could stray away from God and end up in hell after death. Why then does she have a baby?? Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes. God Loved us, so he created us. He wanted us to enjoy paradise, but we ruined it for ourselves. Another example- I love dogs, and I really want one. Why?? I want something to play with, something to love, something to care for, something to watch grow up, something to watch enjoying himself/ herself. When God created us, he wanted to see us happy in paradise ruling over the animals and all the creatures. Get the point yet??
PK
Thanks. For me personally, you've both answered this thread perfectly well. Thanks to both of u!!! It made perfect sense to both of us.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg91612#msg91612 date=1214513159] Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes.
PK, this is a good answer, OK.. and I have no problems. but there's one small issue I need clarification:
You said "possible" outcomes. But given that God knows EXACTLY the outcome, and God has no fear. He doesn't fear. Why create us if He, being so Holy, knows that He will create something that will turn against Him??? Is that good?
Its more like a mother who will have a child who knows that the child will bring destruction to everyone.
I mean, imagine if she KNEW that her son would be someone so bad and awful.. surely that would dissuade her???
Children are born pure. As Coptic Christians we believe that if infants die, there is no question as to where they will end up going after they're death. Heaven of course since he/she was pure. The fallen nature that we inherit from Adam, only means that we will be tested before going to heaven to see if we're worthy of that privilege. After a child is born and is mature, he will have many options ahead of him in life. Either to follow God or money. Adam's fallen nature doesn't make us go to hell, we still have a chance. If someone goes to hell, it's his fault, not Adam's. That person lead an evil life full of sin, and chose to leave God by his own will. Yes, when Adam sinned we were cast out from paradise, but he didn't seal paradise forever. Also, God knew that they're would be some who will devote their lives to his service and receive eternal life in exchange. You know how sometimes in school when a child misbehaves and then the teacher gets upset and maybe punishes all the kids?? Well, sometimes we think of that one kid who misbehaves as Adam and the rest of the well behaved kids as ourselves. This is not so. We are all that one kid who misbehaved, so we are all deserving of the same punishment. However, God is fair so he doesn't want to be like that teacher. He wants to give a chance to the people who will eventually inherit eternal life. Would it be fair if God ruined everyone's chance of going to heaven and enjoying it because some decided to not follow him? How do you think a person like St. Mary would have felt? She gained eternal life and a huge rank in heaven. Would it have been fair if God took this chance away from her by not creating her because he doesn't want others to go to hell?
PK and Londoncopt have answered the question nicely and as to the rest of it, I have something to add to an already great answer by PK, God wanted to create humans and He knew what they would do, but also consider how good God is for He chose to give man free will. If we were all created without free will, if there was no temptation, none would be saved.. (quote from desert father, don't know who exactly, sorry)
Despite the fact that children are born pure, if they die after birth, none of us can guarantee they will go to heaven. This is only because they were not baptized. I am definitely not saying they will go to hell, I am only saying we don't know. However, that subject is off of this thread...
Also, God is love, and thus He did not create us to love us, but for us to love Him and consequently taste Him. The Holy Trinity does not have a beginning, and The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are always in complete love within each other. Thus, St. John can boldly say, "God is love".
They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
Ahhh, how could we forget that? The beginning of On the Incarnation perfectly describes the creation and its reasons... It is a perfect book concerning all aspects...
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6839.msg91814#msg91814 date=1214631176] They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg94013#msg94013 date=1219904752] [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6839.msg91814#msg91814 date=1214631176] They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
Worry about your salvation not of others! who are you?! are you God?! don't just assume... this is a sin when you discuss the eternal fate of somebody... even if its just about the children, YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! FOR GOD ALONE KNOWS THIS... SO JUST WORRY ABOUT YOUR SALVATION AND ABOUT IT ALONE!!!
For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Life in God’s Garden The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
so God created man just to take care of his creation nothing more nothing less! he created the creation and created the "thing" that would take care of it! the reason God like that "thing" was because it was pretty much His right-hand man! just like an owner who gives his company or whatever to his right hand man, he must love him trust him, and all that good stuff! and as in business there is are contracts, if you do this... you will be punished! well God gave Adam free will and gave him a verbal contract, telling him in the day you eat of that tree you'll surely die! so God gave him the free will to choose... God knows but gave free will! God is just, if he just put the person in hell then he would not be called the just God!
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=6839.msg94017#msg94017 date=1219940752] [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg94013#msg94013 date=1219904752] [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6839.msg91814#msg91814 date=1214631176] They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
Worry about your salvation not of others! who are you?! are you God?! don't just assume... this is a sin when you discuss the eternal fate of somebody... even if its just about the children, YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! FOR GOD ALONE KNOWS THIS... SO JUST WORRY ABOUT YOUR SALVATION AND ABOUT IT ALONE!!!
Comments
Why did god create us? If he knew what our outcome is gonna be then why did he create us? If he planed out our life, an he knew what we were gonna do, then why create us?
I know that we have a purpose in life, bas if god already knew this purpose why did he create us?
Why make us go through life and it's painfull moments if he already knew everything? ???
bentBABAyasooa`
haram 3aleekee ya bentababayasso3aa!!!!!!!
Please! if someone has the answer as to why God decided to create man, especially knowing all the pain and suffering that would happen as a result.. why go through with the idea???
Like God, she doesnt NEED a child...but she WANTS a child so she can love it. I like to think that God is exactly the same: He doesn't NEED us by any means, but loved us before He had even created us...and so created us to show us His great love.
Ok, none of that probably made any sense, but I don't tend to make much sense, sorry :D
PK
I've always thought of creation as a gift, in that its better to exist than to NOT exist. Who was God to share His love with if He hadn't created us? I like to think of it as a husband and wife - they have an instinct to bear children, to care for them, love them and raise them BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN BORN. Think about your own mother- she longed for you and loved you before you were even conceived! She loved you before she even thought of having you!
Like God, she doesnt NEED a child...but she WANTS a child so she can love it. I like to think that God is exactly the same: He doesn't NEED us by any means, but loved us before He had even created us...and so created us to show us His great love.
Ok, none of that probably made any sense, but I don't tend to make much sense, sorry :D
Thanks.. it made sense to me. I said the same thing to my wife.. and she didnt understand it.When she read your post, she finally understood it. lol
Its a good explanation (i think).
But she wants to know that given the God KNEW the outcome of man.. i.e. that we will be SOO destructive and cause Him misery, (and others too), and that we will obviously fall from grace, then WHY Oh WHy did He go through with His plan?
Look at a pregnant woman. She loves her baby, before he/she even is born. A mother also knows the risk she is putting her child in when she makes the decision to have a child. She knows the baby could hurt himself and die. She knows that he could be born with a disease or catch one later on that could kill him/her. She also knows that he/she could stray away from God and end up in hell after death. Why then does she have a baby?? Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes. God Loved us, so he created us. He wanted us to enjoy paradise, but we ruined it for ourselves. Another example- I love dogs, and I really want one. Why?? I want something to play with, something to love, something to care for, something to watch grow up, something to watch enjoying himself/ herself. When God created us, he wanted to see us happy in paradise ruling over the animals and all the creatures. Get the point yet??
PK
This is an EXCELLENT answer
Look at a pregnant woman. She loves her baby, before he/she even is born. A mother also knows the risk she is putting her child in when she makes the decision to have a child. She knows the baby could hurt himself and die. She knows that he could be born with a disease or catch one later on that could kill him/her. She also knows that he/she could stray away from God and end up in hell after death. Why then does she have a baby?? Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes. God Loved us, so he created us. He wanted us to enjoy paradise, but we ruined it for ourselves. Another example- I love dogs, and I really want one. Why?? I want something to play with, something to love, something to care for, something to watch grow up, something to watch enjoying himself/ herself. When God created us, he wanted to see us happy in paradise ruling over the animals and all the creatures. Get the point yet??
PK
Thanks. For me personally, you've both answered this thread perfectly well. Thanks to both of u!!!
It made perfect sense to both of us.
Because her love to it, is far greater than her fears of these possible outcomes.
PK, this is a good answer, OK.. and I have no problems. but there's one small issue I need clarification:
You said "possible" outcomes. But given that God knows EXACTLY the outcome, and God has no fear. He doesn't fear. Why create us if He, being so Holy, knows that He will create something that will turn against Him??? Is that good?
Its more like a mother who will have a child who knows that the child will bring destruction to everyone.
I mean, imagine if she KNEW that her son would be someone so bad and awful.. surely that would dissuade her???
Thanks man.
(your answer, with LondonCopt was perfectly fine).
The answer to my question was that in God's eyes, we are worth more than our sins.
PK
God Bless
Please pray for me
Despite the fact that children are born pure, if they die after birth, none of us can guarantee they will go to heaven. This is only because they were not baptized. I am definitely not saying they will go to hell, I am only saying we don't know. However, that subject is off of this thread...
Also, God is love, and thus He did not create us to love us, but for us to love Him and consequently taste Him. The Holy Trinity does not have a beginning, and The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are always in complete love within each other. Thus, St. John can boldly say, "God is love".
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
I recommend St. Athanasius, "On the Incarnation".
You are a genius :D
They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6839.msg91814#msg91814 date=1214631176]
They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
Worry about your salvation not of others! who are you?! are you God?! don't just assume... this is a sin when you discuss the eternal fate of somebody... even if its just about the children, YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! FOR GOD ALONE KNOWS THIS... SO JUST WORRY ABOUT YOUR SALVATION AND ABOUT IT ALONE!!!
For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Life in God’s Garden The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it parted and became four riverheads. The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which skirts the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. And the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there. The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which goes around the whole land of Cush. The name of the third river is Hiddekel; it is the one which goes toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. Then the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
so God created man just to take care of his creation nothing more nothing less! he created the creation and created the "thing" that would take care of it! the reason God like that "thing" was because it was pretty much His right-hand man! just like an owner who gives his company or whatever to his right hand man, he must love him trust him, and all that good stuff! and as in business there is are contracts, if you do this... you will be punished! well God gave Adam free will and gave him a verbal contract, telling him in the day you eat of that tree you'll surely die! so God gave him the free will to choose... God knows but gave free will! God is just, if he just put the person in hell then he would not be called the just God!
I took the blessing... thank God!
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6839.msg94013#msg94013 date=1219904752]
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6839.msg91814#msg91814 date=1214631176]
They are for sure not perfect, they are still with blemish and carry a corrupt nature. Whether they go to heaven to us is irrelevant, this is God's discision and whatever he does is fair. He will not punish a baby for nothing. I've always heard that they do go to heaven but are blind of the Glory of God. Nobody knows what happens to them, God help us and save us all.
God Bless and Pray for me and my weakness
Whether Blind from the Glory of God or in heaven, IDK. But I pretty much can say for sure they won't go to hell.
Worry about your salvation not of others! who are you?! are you God?! don't just assume... this is a sin when you discuss the eternal fate of somebody... even if its just about the children, YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! FOR GOD ALONE KNOWS THIS... SO JUST WORRY ABOUT YOUR SALVATION AND ABOUT IT ALONE!!!
Ya, your probably right.