Catholics and Noah's Ark

Christ4Life

Hi you guys... I just realized that I haven't opened a thread in ages...

Ok so I was researching something for my FOC on Noah's Ark and how Catholics percieve it to believe it to be a "myth". I was wondering if anyone had any of their theologian's writings on this matter. I also entered into a discussion with them into how and why it is literally as well as symbolically true. However, I'm stuck in the argument. I basically have no base on which to build my side of the story. The truth is, I have never read anything concerning this issue. What do you guys have to say? A special invitation to Iqbal and Orthodox 11, I really need you on this one...

mannan

I learned in school that some scientists believe that Mt. Ararat was the last place Noah's Ark landed.
Sorry if this didnt help.

Christ4Life

Not only do scientists believe that, but so do we. Genesis 8:4 states: "Then the ark rested in the senth month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat." There was also an expedition to see if it was still actually there. However, that does not help them. Thank you regardless for your effort!

coptic pharoah

[quote author=Christ4Life link=topic=6842.msg91703#msg91703 date=1214537796]
Not only do scientists believe that, but so do we. Genesis 8:4 states: "Then the ark rested in the senth month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat." There was also an expedition to see if it was still actually there. However, that does not help them. Thank you regardless for your effort!


Actually , i beleive there was an expediton to go and try to find it... i think it was on the National Geographic Channel a long time ago.

mannan

Thanks for the information. I never knew that it is written in the Bible. I look forward to learning from this topic.

clay

Some scholars of Hebrew believe the flood was not a global flood, but one that went over all the land where man lived. He argued that everyone lived so close in the primitive ages of human civilization. I don't have the references with me, however.

The Catholics have a very beautiful and extensive encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01720a.htm.

It unambiguously states that Catholics are not uniform in this regard. And I think the last sentence means that they at the moment it should be taken literally true until the evidence can complete the vagueness of the passed down narration.

Christ4Life

I saw the encyclopedia but 2 things are wrong with it.
1) It is old (1912 or something around that).
2) It is somewhat of an official view (I really need a theologian's perspective).

It will be somewhat helpful though... I need more references.

user00

Hi Christ4Life,
It's great to see you back on the site... you've been missed!

I have tried to compile some resources that God willing you will find helpful:
http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/srgenesis.pdf

http://www.suscopts.org/q&a/index.php?catid=272

http://copticchurch.org/Texts/Spirituals/Genesisc.pdf

http://mystjohn.org/books/Questionsv1.pdf

http://www.traneem.org/Books/English Books/Fr. Tadros Malaty/Genesisc.pdf

I hope this was a little helpful. You might also want to check your local Church bookstore or library.

Christ4Life

Thank you so much user00, I was away because of school, but now I have much more time.
The problem is I'm arguing against Catholics. They do not believe in any of the sources I have and the ones you provided also. I need references from their theologians, what they want to say.

user00

That's going to be quite a problem then, because really they don't seem to have any unified teaching.. what comes from the Vatican might be different from what the actual people believe or teach...

But I do know that they believe the 1st 11 chapters of Genesis to be merely "symbolic", not necessarily that Moses wrote it, that evolution does not contradict creation, and a bunch of other ideas...

Christ4Life

Yes, I can see from my discussion with them that they themselves do not agree on what to believe in. They believe Genesis to be a "myth", a fairytale I should tell my little brother before going to sleep. This is sad...

The Vatican itself talks of the Flood as an actual occurrence. However, H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy, the expert theologist, has said that some Catholic theologians treat Genesis as a myth. These are the theologians I'm looking for.

Christ4Life

You guys don't have anything? Anything at all?

Meena_Ameen

go on youtube and type in noahs ark, they actually have videos and photos of where they think the ark is, and a photo which they think is the actually ark itself.

Hezekiel

However, I'm stuck in the argument. I basically have no base on which to build my side of the story. The truth is, I have never read anything concerning this issue.

Hi Christ4Life,

I am not quite sure what you are looking for.But let me tell you from the onset that discussion with Catholics is tiresome.They simply think,they own the truth faith. THe current Pope wrote a book in German,while he was Cardinal Ratizinger and I stopped reading the book as I figured out the brazen contempt he has for the Orthodox church.In his book he unambigiously declared that Catholicism is the one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

When the Blessed Mother was making her apparitions in Zeitun decades ago,when some of us were not even in the twinkel of our father's eyes, People of all religions,even a guy who believed in the Sun God Ra saw the events and was converted to the true faith without ifs and buts,but do you know why the Vatican accepted the apparitions of the blessed Virgin Mary at Zeitoun as authentic? I found the reason behind their approval bizzare. You certainly have heard about the apparition of the Blessed Mother to 3 Portuguese Children in Fatima,Portugal,right? One of those children was the late Sister Lucia. Sister Lucia had told the Incumbent Pope way back into time that the blessed Mother had promised to appear in Egypt. The Pope taught,that the apparition would take place in a Catholic church and thought it would be an honor to build a church  named after 'Our lady of Fatima' in Cairo for the apparitions to take place. When the apparitions failed to take place in that church, the vatican sent Sister Lucia to Egypt in order to find out if the glowing Lady who appears at the dome of the Zeitun church was the same lady she saw in the early 1900 in Fatima,Portugal.When Sister Lucia confirmed that it was ,indeed,the Blessed Mother who was making her glorious appearance over a coptic orthodox church, the Vatican conceded and had no other choice than to officially approve the miracle as authentic.It is,therefore, with people with such a mindset that you are trying to argue.Good Luck.

In the meantime ,you can seal your side of the story,using some references from the NT that confirm the scriptures of the OT:

"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,  and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matthew 24:37-39).

"By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith." (Hebrews 11:7).


"Who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water." (I Peter 3:20).


"And did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly." (II Peter 2:5).

some Catholic theologians treat Genesis as a myth. These are the theologians I'm looking for.

I have not read it through,but check the following link for the other side of the argument:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_geology

Christ4Life

Tell me about these people. I feel like they want to enclose God in a tiny box... They put so many limitations on religion! Good God I never thought somebody could be that stubborn! I'm trying, I hope I get somewhere. I just hope that if anybody has any info on this, to give me a heads up.