Given that Adam didn't chose his wife, is it right to say that this constitutes an "Arranged" forced Marriage? There's nowhere in Genesis where Adam actually says he wants to marry Eve!?
I want to laugh. Only a modern man would make this accusation! I love you Vas. You bring an interesting point, and I hope you will bear with me.
Yes, this was an arranged marriage. But I think God knows who Adam would want. Secondly, when we all choose our wife, we should choose the bride that God has chosen for us. Our marriage is perhaps the most intimate part of our life, second to our relationship with God in Christ. And our children get pretty close, too. Obviously with such an environment, this can either deter you from God or bring you closer. Further, you have an obligation to make your household a place of holiness.
I guess what I am trying to say, is, that the story of Genesis shows the way we should pursue this Sacrament among the faithful: a union blessed by God from the outset- not a union He is forced to bless because of the priest's words (I am not saying that these unions are not blessed God in any way!- He blesses them because of the honour He has to faithfulness, as can be seen in the Books of Jeremiah, especially lamentations). Which brings me back to a verse we all know: "What God has joined, let no man put asunder."
I mean, it seems like forced arranged marriage to me:
God creates Adam. He then says "its not good for this man to be alone", so God then puts Adam into a deep sleep. Then God takes adam's rib and creates Eve.
No-where in any of that story did Adam have a say. The poor chap just woke up, and found he was married.
What if Adam didn't like Eve... I mean... u can't just force someone to get married.
Are you serious? God saw that Adam was alone. He knew that Adam needed a human companion. God made Adam- he knows Adam better than he knows himself.
God did the same with St. Mary when He chose her a husband, and to become pregnant. As I said, only a modern man (including myself) with such a pervasive self-centredness would question our graceful God's will. We have no sense of responsibility, but only our "God-given rights" (that apparently God cannot even breach?). How odd.
[quote author=clay link=topic=6891.msg92371#msg92371 date=1215434994] Are you serious? God saw that Adam was alone. He knew that Adam needed a human companion. God made Adam- he knows Adam better than he knows himself.
Yeah, but we do not know whether Adam actually consented to the idea?? Also, did he have a chance to get to know her before marriage??
Well from a fanciful female point of view, I like to think that Adam and Eve did know one another before they married and Adam consented and more to her (Eve's) existence. Eve was (is) a gift to Adam. A helper in his great works. A part of his flesh. I think this means if Adam did not like Eve, he did not like himself.
I think Adam loved (loves) Eve the way Christ loved (loves) the Church.
I do not know if you can consider such an occurance as having a rib taken from you to make u the best as 'forced or arranged'.
Is man really better off with 'choice'? we know better than God?...
Given that Adam didn't chose his wife, is it right to say that this constitutes an "Arranged" forced Marriage? There's nowhere in Genesis where Adam actually says he wants to marry Eve!?
What do u think?
I dont have anything to say to the thread,but this question reminds me of the following joke:
Eve (calling):Adam dear
Adam: Oh that woman again.Yeah, what is it this time?
Eve: Do you really love me?
Adam, Oh, how often should I say it. Yes I do, who else? For heavens sake,there are no other women around.
Eve: Thanks dear , I just wanted to hear it.
But Eve was not Sure.One night Adam woke up to find Eve running her fingers over his rib cage.
`What are you doing?’ cried Adam. `Counting your ribs!’, was Eve’s reply!
poor Adam, our father wakes up... and he's married... sounds like a messed up night in vagas! maybe God had a bad sense of humor... but I doubt that... lets look at it!
Adam was bored... he tries to talk to the animals... and they never talk back to him... he almost lost his mind, because his friend the sheep kept on ignoring him... so God had to make someone comparable to him! "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him."
so now God thought of the best way to get a rib out of Adam... but He loves him so much, he doesn't want to hurt him! so He put him in deep sleep... took a rib out and made woman... "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man."
so till now we agree on the story... now our father Adam didn't have many girls to pick out of as in the joke! so woman was the female given to him by God Himself... now we all know God always does what is good for us... so God made her perfect for him!
now Adam did have free will! so he could have easily said... "naaa... G I love You and all... but, I still have 23 more ribs to go..." but our father did not say that... he accepted her... and his acceptance was when he said, "she is a bone of my bones... she is flesh of my flesh, when he came to call her kind! he could have easily said okay she's a woman... khalas... when is the next one... "and Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”
now he had the full choice... so its not arranged marriage... "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
Hezekiel and SuperMAN(BAM) I don't know why, but that got a good laugh outta me. You guys are too funny! I really needed a good laugh before my bedtime.
I like how St. John puts it when he say's: In the beginnining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. My understanding of this is that we once were God's Word and we all knew as we were known. That's why Adam knew Eve as his immediately. That must be so glorious; a world without distractions, without sin.
Given that Adam didn't chose his wife, is it right to say that this constitutes an "Arranged" forced Marriage? There's nowhere in Genesis where Adam actually says he wants to marry Eve!?
What do u think?
You are sooo right about everything right here vas, There is something called freedom and free will!! No one should be forced to marry some one!!! that is unhuman!!!!! Adam should have stood up for himself and said NO I DON"T WANT TO MARRY EVE!!! God should have given him a choice!!!! I mean god created adam to live in a wonderfull place with sooo many food choices and many pets/animal to have/name.... Adam should have snaped his fingers and said god make me another woman i don't like eve don't force me to marry her or i am going to kill myelf!!
Adam should have divorced eve!!!!! and found another woman to marry!! Is this what you want to hear?
There is no where in the bible says adam was forced to marry eve and there is no where in the bible says he didn't like her! Obviously he did like her and he was happy with her because of all the generations they made!!
There is no such thing as arranged marriages in paradise as being forced into it like you mentioned! Because we meet new ppl every day and WE ACTUALY HAVE THE CHOICE TO run away to Las vages and get married there, rgt?! so you are not being forced to do anything you chose to run away to Vages and get married. but god planned our whole life for us.... if we are ment to get married then there is a special someone out there for us, that god has choosen becaue he knows what is inside each person's heart and he is the best at matching hearts together. God picked a person for you/me/him/her and you can either trust him and marry that person or ran to Vages!
So leave Adam and Eve alone don't worry about them. Don't worry if they had belly butons/what language they spoke/what their life was like. worry about how you can make your life closer to god!! And if Adam complained to you again, just tell him to thank god for everything concerning everything ;)
You didn't choose your mother, nor did she choose you... You didn't choose where you'd born, and when... You didn't choose your gender, your race, your talents...
God chose those things for you... what's your point???
God always works for the best for His beloved children. He works in 'mysterious ways', He has a plan, He knows you inside and out before you're born. He knew Adam and He created a perfect wife for Him, Eve.
It depends on what you define as 'arranged'. I know many people in Egypt get married throug family, meaning: A man is looking for a wife since he's reached the age of marriage and is financially ready and such, and then some people start telling him about good girls they know that are fit for marriage. Then the man goes and meets the girl and they see where they go from there... This however, is not arranged marriage, the initial meeting between the two can be called 'arranged', but eventually (and hopefully) it's up to the couple to decide whether they get married or not... It's up to the girl to agree to that man or not...
Arranged marriage, in my understanding, would be that two people get married without their (or one of them) consent... And I'm sure they don't always 'grow to love eachother', I mean it might happen, but I know if I were really forced to marry someone, I would stubbornly not like him, even if there was a chance that I would if I really tried...
Because a forced marriage, I think, is a contradictio in terminis..
No. Im not saying it was "forced" - im saying it was arranged. But having said that, Adam 1st saw his wife naked. That was kinda romantic?? I guess that influenced him a bit...
I havent read any posts here apart from Vas last one, but to Vas: when Adam saw Eve naked, his sexual sense wasn't "active" as they didn't realise they were naked...
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6891.msg92716#msg92716 date=1216065470] I havent read any posts here apart from Vas last one, but to Vas: when Adam saw Eve naked, his sexual sense wasn't "active" as they didn't realise they were naked...
So how is it God could tell them to be "fruitful" and "multiply"?
....???? God told them to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth and subdue it. This doesn't change the fact that they didn't know that they being naked was shameful....
And anyways lol, im arguing without knowing what I'm actually arguing about ;D
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6891.msg92719#msg92719 date=1216066026] ....???? God told them to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth and subdue it. This doesn't change the fact that they didn't know that they being naked was shameful....
And anyways lol, im arguing without knowing what I'm actually arguing about ;D
Hangon, God told them to multiply, yet He knew that they had no idea on how to multiply because they did not know they were naked? i.e. that their sexual senses were not active?
So, how did God want them to multiply if their sexual senses were not active?
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6891.msg92724#msg92724 date=1216066648] Hmmmm..... I dunno
But who told u that their sexual senses were not active when God created them?
Joe, I think the fact that they "did not realise they were naked" does not mean that their sexual senses were inhibited. I think it means that corruption entered in their nature. But they could have reproduced when God created them.
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (genesis)
Sex between a man and his wife was blessed by God, in a book by the youth bishopric of the coc, it says, since Eve was flesh of Adam's flesh and bone of his bones, it was only normal thay they would become one flesh (in having sexual intercourse). So sex and procreation were blessed by God, since He had seen everything He had created and it was good.
Only after their fall, did lust come and sex wasn't just pure unity and expression of love between husband and wife as it was meant by God. Sex was turned into something 'dirty' and 'shamefull', because man was far from God, who is pure and right.
[quote author=godislove260 link=topic=6891.msg92727#msg92727 date=1216067257] Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (genesis)
Sex between a man and his wife was blessed by God, in a book by the youth bishopric of the coc, it says, since Eve was flesh of Adam's flesh and bone of his bones, it was only normal thay they would become one flesh (in having sexual intercourse). So sex and procreation were blessed by God, since He had seen everything He had created and it was good.
Only after their fall, did lust come and sex wasn't just pure unity and expression of love between husband and wife as it was meant by God. Sex was turned into something 'dirty' and 'shamefull', because man was far from God, who is pure and right.
God Bless Please pray for me
Joe, there's your answer haboob.
THat makes perfect sense to me, because I do beleive they did have sexual relations when God created them, except after the fall, the way they love changed. It became more carnal than it did spiritual. Before, there was no issue being naked, but after they fell, they felt embarassed being naked, which most likely means how they saw each before the fall was in a very pure way.
Godislove's answer makes sense to me at least. WHich means that Adam, upon seeing Eve naked when God made her for him, must have been a turn on.
Hahaha Vas, don't forget that he was naked too, and being naked back then didn't have the same social taboo (social taboo?! they were the only humans around!) as it did now, and so wouldn't have sent the same message to someone nowadays who meets his wife naked first time.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6891.msg92736#msg92736 date=1216070078] So, I was right, When Adam saw his wife Eve for the 1st time, she was naked. lol
I think this is a good way to make them like each other. Its definately a good ice-breaker when u are getting to know someone for the 1st time.
that's wrong to think about it this way. It's written: Genesis 2:25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
they felt no shame. it's not the same nakedness that they hade after they sinned.
Comments
Yes, this was an arranged marriage. But I think God knows who Adam would want. Secondly, when we all choose our wife, we should choose the bride that God has chosen for us. Our marriage is perhaps the most intimate part of our life, second to our relationship with God in Christ. And our children get pretty close, too. Obviously with such an environment, this can either deter you from God or bring you closer. Further, you have an obligation to make your household a place of holiness.
I guess what I am trying to say, is, that the story of Genesis shows the way we should pursue this Sacrament among the faithful: a union blessed by God from the outset- not a union He is forced to bless because of the priest's words (I am not saying that these unions are not blessed God in any way!- He blesses them because of the honour He has to faithfulness, as can be seen in the Books of Jeremiah, especially lamentations). Which brings me back to a verse we all know: "What God has joined, let no man put asunder."
I mean, it seems like forced arranged marriage to me:
God creates Adam.
He then says "its not good for this man to be alone", so God then puts Adam into a deep sleep.
Then God takes adam's rib and creates Eve.
No-where in any of that story did Adam have a say. The poor chap just woke up, and found he was married.
What if Adam didn't like Eve... I mean... u can't just force someone to get married.
God did the same with St. Mary when He chose her a husband, and to become pregnant. As I said, only a modern man (including myself) with such a pervasive self-centredness would question our graceful God's will. We have no sense of responsibility, but only our "God-given rights" (that apparently God cannot even breach?). How odd.
Are you serious? God saw that Adam was alone. He knew that Adam needed a human companion. God made Adam- he knows Adam better than he knows himself.
Yeah, but we do not know whether Adam actually consented to the idea?? Also, did he have a chance to get to know her before marriage??
Eve was (is) a gift to Adam. A helper in his great works. A part of his flesh. I think this means if Adam did not like Eve, he did not like himself.
I think Adam loved (loves) Eve the way Christ loved (loves) the Church.
I do not know if you can consider such an occurance as having a rib taken from you to make u the best as 'forced or arranged'.
Is man really better off with 'choice'? we know better than God?...
Hello,
Given that Adam didn't chose his wife, is it right to say that this constitutes an "Arranged" forced Marriage?
There's nowhere in Genesis where Adam actually says he wants to marry Eve!?
What do u think?
I dont have anything to say to the thread,but this question reminds me of the following joke:
Eve (calling):Adam dear
Adam: Oh that woman again.Yeah, what is it this time?
Eve: Do you really love me?
Adam, Oh, how often should I say it. Yes I do, who else? For heavens sake,there are no other women around.
Eve: Thanks dear , I just wanted to hear it.
But Eve was not Sure.One night Adam woke up to find Eve running her fingers over his rib cage.
`What are you doing?’ cried Adam. `Counting your ribs!’, was Eve’s reply!
Adam was bored... he tries to talk to the animals... and they never talk back to him... he almost lost his mind, because his friend the sheep kept on ignoring him... so God had to make someone comparable to him! "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him."
so now God thought of the best way to get a rib out of Adam... but He loves him so much, he doesn't want to hurt him! so He put him in deep sleep... took a rib out and made woman... "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man."
so till now we agree on the story... now our father Adam didn't have many girls to pick out of as in the joke! so woman was the female given to him by God Himself... now we all know God always does what is good for us... so God made her perfect for him!
now Adam did have free will! so he could have easily said... "naaa... G I love You and all... but, I still have 23 more ribs to go..." but our father did not say that... he accepted her... and his acceptance was when he said, "she is a bone of my bones... she is flesh of my flesh, when he came to call her kind! he could have easily said okay she's a woman... khalas... when is the next one... "and Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”
now he had the full choice... so its not arranged marriage... "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
My understanding of this is that we once were God's Word and we all knew as we were known. That's why Adam knew Eve as his immediately.
That must be so glorious; a world without distractions, without sin.
Hello,
Given that Adam didn't chose his wife, is it right to say that this constitutes an "Arranged" forced Marriage?
There's nowhere in Genesis where Adam actually says he wants to marry Eve!?
What do u think?
You are sooo right about everything right here vas, There is something called freedom and free will!!
No one should be forced to marry some one!!! that is unhuman!!!!! Adam should have stood up for himself and said NO I DON"T WANT TO MARRY EVE!!! God should have given him a choice!!!! I mean god created adam to live in a wonderfull place with sooo many food choices and many pets/animal to have/name.... Adam should have snaped his fingers and said god make me another woman i don't like eve don't force me to marry her or i am going to kill myelf!!
Adam should have divorced eve!!!!! and found another woman to marry!!
Is this what you want to hear?
There is no where in the bible says adam was forced to marry eve and there is no where in the bible says he didn't like her! Obviously he did like her and he was happy with her because of all the generations they made!!
There is no such thing as arranged marriages in paradise as being forced into it like you mentioned! Because we meet new ppl every day and WE ACTUALY HAVE THE CHOICE TO run away to Las vages and get married there, rgt?! so you are not being forced to do anything you chose to run away to Vages and get married. but god planned our whole life for us.... if we are ment to get married then there is a special someone out there for us, that god has choosen becaue he knows what is inside each person's heart and he is the best at matching hearts together. God picked a person for you/me/him/her and you can either trust him and marry that person or ran to Vages!
So leave Adam and Eve alone don't worry about them. Don't worry if they had belly butons/what language they spoke/what their life was like. worry about how you can make your life closer to god!! And if Adam complained to you again, just tell him to thank god for everything concerning everything ;)
Peace,
bentBABAyasooa`
God chose Eve for Adam.
You didn't choose where you'd born, and when...
You didn't choose your gender, your race, your talents...
God chose those things for you... what's your point???
God always works for the best for His beloved children.
He works in 'mysterious ways', He has a plan, He knows you inside and out before you're born. He knew Adam and He created a perfect wife for Him, Eve.
God Bless
Please pray for me
My opinion is that the best marriages are arranged. Where u fall in love after the marriage, not really before.
Arranged marriage, in my understanding, would be that two people get married without their (or one of them) consent... And I'm sure they don't always 'grow to love eachother', I mean it might happen, but I know if I were really forced to marry someone, I would stubbornly not like him, even if there was a chance that I would if I really tried...
Because a forced marriage, I think, is a contradictio in terminis..
God Bless
Please pray for me
I havent read any posts here apart from Vas last one, but to Vas: when Adam saw Eve naked, his sexual sense wasn't "active" as they didn't realise they were naked...
So how is it God could tell them to be "fruitful" and "multiply"?
And anyways lol, im arguing without knowing what I'm actually arguing about ;D
....???? God told them to be fruitful and multiply and to fill the earth and subdue it. This doesn't change the fact that they didn't know that they being naked was shameful....
And anyways lol, im arguing without knowing what I'm actually arguing about ;D
Hangon, God told them to multiply, yet He knew that they had no idea on how to multiply because they did not know they were naked? i.e. that their sexual senses were not active?
So, how did God want them to multiply if their sexual senses were not active?
Hmmmm..... I dunno
But who told u that their sexual senses were not active when God created them?
Joe, I think the fact that they "did not realise they were naked" does not mean that their sexual senses were inhibited. I think it means that corruption entered in their nature. But they could have reproduced when God created them.
I don't know.. someone correct me if i'm wrong.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (genesis)
Sex between a man and his wife was blessed by God, in a book by the youth bishopric of the coc, it says, since Eve was flesh of Adam's flesh and bone of his bones, it was only normal thay they would become one flesh (in having sexual intercourse). So sex and procreation were blessed by God, since He had seen everything He had created and it was good.
Only after their fall, did lust come and sex wasn't just pure unity and expression of love between husband and wife as it was meant by God. Sex was turned into something 'dirty' and 'shamefull', because man was far from God, who is pure and right.
God Bless
Please pray for me
Its been a while since I actually seriously got into topics on tasbeha.org.... it feels good to be back :)
pray for me
joe
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. (genesis)
Sex between a man and his wife was blessed by God, in a book by the youth bishopric of the coc, it says, since Eve was flesh of Adam's flesh and bone of his bones, it was only normal thay they would become one flesh (in having sexual intercourse). So sex and procreation were blessed by God, since He had seen everything He had created and it was good.
Only after their fall, did lust come and sex wasn't just pure unity and expression of love between husband and wife as it was meant by God. Sex was turned into something 'dirty' and 'shamefull', because man was far from God, who is pure and right.
God Bless
Please pray for me
Joe, there's your answer haboob.
THat makes perfect sense to me, because I do beleive they did have sexual relations when God created them, except after the fall, the way they love changed. It became more carnal than it did spiritual. Before, there was no issue being naked, but after they fell, they felt embarassed being naked, which most likely means how they saw each before the fall was in a very pure way.
Godislove's answer makes sense to me at least. WHich means that Adam, upon seeing Eve naked when God made her for him, must have been a turn on.
lol
I think this is a good way to make them like each other. Its definately a good ice-breaker when u are getting to know someone for the 1st time.
pray for me
joe
That means that God loves us also to be fruitful and multiply. Either that, or He likes us to be happy ;)
So, I was right, When Adam saw his wife Eve for the 1st time, she was naked.
lol
I think this is a good way to make them like each other. Its definately a good ice-breaker when u are getting to know someone for the 1st time.
that's wrong to think about it this way. It's written:
Genesis 2:25
The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
they felt no shame. it's not the same nakedness that they hade after they sinned.