Hello,
I'd like to know why the Coptic Orthodox Church does not get involved in Politics like other Churches. It seems strange to me that we elect politicians who try and bring peace to the world, and they fail miserably - yet we simply ignore Orthodox monks, bishops and Popes who spend their entire lives preaching peace and living in brotherly peace. Surely, they would be better diplomats of peace than any diplomat.
Also, where righteousness is concerned, or fairness - shouldnt the Church be involved also? I feel sometimes the Church keeps quiet, and the needs of the Coptic people are subdued by this gorey silence. For example: had the CoC been active in Politics from the beginning (back in the early 1800's or even before), wouldnt rights for Coptic Christians be a non-issue by now? What seems to happen is that our Patriarchs have complained silently or perhaps not really complained at all, and the result: there is more friction between Copts and Muslims than ever before.
I'm sure you've all seen the videos on youtube of our beloved pontiff crying on TV over this issue. I know he was upset due to the attacks in alexandria, and those that got killed, but... there's a small saying that goes like this:
If you think how you've always thought, and you do what you've always done,
you'll get what you've always got
And we've always got discrimination in Egypt. I mean, if there was no discrimination, and we were not treated as 2nd class citizens then speaking coptic or arabic or both wouldnt be an issue. Because we are treated as 2nd Class citizens in Egypt, we tend to hold on strongly to our own language "Coptic" as we seem to be unaccepted in our Country that speaks arabic. - and that's really bad, because when Copts start saying "Coptic is the language of Egypt!" they are denying that "Arabic is now the official language of Egypt" - and I feel that this just adds more fuel to the fire.
Comments
If you know some history, I'm sure you can find many examples
Look at the catholic church in the Middle Ages, the Pope was sometimes as or even more powerful than the king. Popes wanted more power and were willing to do all things to get it, such as having babies to ensure power stays with their offspring, kings could do whatever they wanted to the people, they just bribed the Pope into agreeing with whatever the king was doing...Sometimes there would be powerstruggle between both..
But who was concerned with running the church spiritually, or running the state and looking after the people??
I believe you can't have a democratic republic without seperation of church and state, so that everyone has equal rights regardless of their religion...
(Do I need to remind you of what happens when religion mixes in with state matters in Egypt: Egypt is an islamic country, and The main source of legislation is the Shari3a)
In a republic (res publicae : thing of the people) the laws have to be agreeable with all people, not just with a certain religion.
I believe one of the things which makes our church the best is the fact that they don't get involved in politics as a church. However this doesn't mean that copts can't get into politics, they can, but not as represantatives of the church, but simply as egyptians...
Politics and religions don't go together in my opinion, and if you look at any state nowadays where there is democracy, you'll find it's secularized and there's no religious intervention.
God Bless
Please pray for me
But in the end God will fight for you while you remain silent
God Bless
Please pray for me
i guess the problem is : we are too peacful and don't ususally result to violence to sort out all our problems.... that is why we get treated like 2nd class citizens.
Its really sad , because all my cousins have voted for the Muslim Brotherhood. They said, it wouldnt make a difference.. they are just as bad as the current government.
Secondly, I don't think violence will do us any good for two reasons:
1. We are only 15%
2. We would not have God on our side anymore cuz we'd be breaking His commandments
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 5:10
and think about it: if the Copts were not opressed, would we have kept the faith the way we have right now?
Being "opressed" in Egypt adds to the blessing of the people, it is building the treasures in heavens becuase they are being "persecuted for righteousness" they will get blessed. if we truly want to help them, we should just PRAY.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 5:10
and think about it: if the Copts were not opressed, would we have kept the faith the way we have right now?
Exactly my thoughts also...
I mean why do we worry, we have GOD with us..
God Bless
Please pray for me
Being "opressed" in Egypt adds to the blessing of the people, it is building the treasures in heavens becuase they are being "persecuted for righteousness" they will get blessed. if we truly want to help them, we should just PRAY.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 5:10
and think about it: if the Copts were not opressed, would we have kept the faith the way we have right now?
I used to think exactly like u, but when I said this to someone who was oppressed... they didnt quite agree. I said :"But why!? Look, u are taking a blessing for being oppressed!?"
Their explanation or reasoning was like :"the oppression is done in such a way that its ghalassa"
this happened in a die-die situation! the children of Israel had the sea in front of them... and behind them was the enemy (the Egyptians) but yet God still found a way to show his work! and this became one of the most known miraculous wonders of God over generations and generations after!
I used to think exactly like u, but when I said this to someone who was oppressed... they didnt quite agree. I said :"But why!? Look, u are taking a blessing for being oppressed!?"
Their explanation or reasoning was like :"the oppression is done in such a way that its ghalassa"
lol....and that person didn't find a better word to use rather then "ghalassa".
I wouldn't take it as just "ghalassa" but it becomes hate as it is part of the Islamic faith.....
[quote author=coptic pharaoh link=topic=6951.msg93031#msg93031 date=1216405548]
Being "opressed" in Egypt adds to the blessing of the people, it is building the treasures in heavens becuase they are being "persecuted for righteousness" they will get blessed. if we truly want to help them, we should just PRAY.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Matthew 5:10
and think about it: if the Copts were not opressed, would we have kept the faith the way we have right now?
I used to think exactly like u, but when I said this to someone who was oppressed... they didnt quite agree. I said :"But why!? Look, u are taking a blessing for being oppressed!?"
Their explanation or reasoning was like :"the oppression is done in such a way that its ghalassa"
"ghalassa" makes it sound like a joke........ but seriously, what did he think that "Opresion" would be? like a walk in the park? obviously not....
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6951.msg93034#msg93034 date=1216405972]
I used to think exactly like u, but when I said this to someone who was oppressed... they didnt quite agree. I said :"But why!? Look, u are taking a blessing for being oppressed!?"
Their explanation or reasoning was like :"the oppression is done in such a way that its ghalassa"
lol....and that person didn't find a better word to use rather then "ghalassa".
I wouldn't take it as just "ghalassa" but it becomes hate as it is part of the Islamic faith.....
Mina, i have to ask them again, but the impression I had was that they felt it wasn't suffering, it was just being kicked around. I honestly don't know the difference. To me, its suffering.
Mina - do u know anyone that lived in Egypt or grew up there that u could ask/we could ask??
Is it suffering for righteousness sake?
Mina, i have to ask them again, but the impression I had was that they felt it wasn't suffering, it was just being kicked around. I honestly don't know the difference. To me, its suffering.
Mina - do u know anyone that lived in Egypt or grew up there that u could ask/we could ask??
Is it suffering for righteousness sake?
well i lived there untill i was 12 and it was fine. if anything happened it would of been...ghalassa...which is yes a joke. stupid things people just do. normal arguament between people ya3ny. atleast around the delta. i know yes there was problems around upper egypt in some places. but those were also like people probelms, not religious....
what's happenning now is really crazy. after what happens of bth sides, muslims and us...cuzs more problems.
i personnaly don't think it's sufferning.....maybe it started being that way becasue we became more defensive. other then that, the country ITSELF is just fading away. there is no more middle class... it's either ur rich, or poor. youth have no jobs. inflation is high as ever. of course u'd u tooo much people that are just unemployd doing nothing then "defend their faith." of our religion doesn't say much about them, but our youth takes anything that happens from them in the worst way ever. and tht of course makes ppl crazy to do anything.
I can tell you this: as a woman walking around without a hijab, they might comment on you, telling you to cover up...
At school, you can have a teacher who happens to hate christians, he won't treat you well and will make school hell for you...
Some companies don't allow christians to work, they only take muslims...
So there's deffinitely discrimination in everyday life which most christians face, but not all and not all the time
It's not like people go around killing christians in the street, I wouldn't consider wearing a cross risking your life. But people might be hostile and refuse to help you for example or they could be unpolite toward you, but not so far as to physically hurt you.
Also if you're involved in a car accident or such, and the other person is muslim chances are you'd be treated unfairly...
I wouldn't call it ghalassa, but it's not that extreme also, it just makes life a tad bit harder if you're a christian and have bad people around you, but nowadays life in Egypt in general is hard. Prices are high, security is low, there's a feeling of dispair between the people who feel like the government isn't doing anything..
God Bless
Please pray for me