Evangelism

aidan

Bishop Youssef reminds us of the necessity to evangelise our fellow man www.suscopts.org/resources/literature/578/the-naurez-and-christian-testimony.

My problem in London (England) is that all the Orthodox churches use a liturgical language, not English. Its easier for the educated to put in the time and energy to learn what is going on. But what about the poor, meek and not-well-educated?

What do you all suggest while we wait for the vernacular to take over (if it ever does)?

I would like your views on this subject on how we attract everyman to our faith.

In Christ

CertifiedOrthodox

[quote author=aidan link=topic=7182.msg95096#msg95096 date=1223237148]
Bishop Youssef reminds us of the necessity to evangelise our fellow man www.suscopts.org/resources/literature/578/the-naurez-and-christian-testimony.

My problem in London (England) is that all the Orthodox churches use a liturgical language, not English. Its easier for the educated to put in the time and energy to learn what is going on. But what about the poor, meek and not-well-educated?

What do you all suggest while we wait for the vernacular to take over (if it ever does)?

I would like your views on this subject on how we attract everyman to our faith.

In Christ


Aiden,

How are you? I don't know if you realise this or not, but you are raising a very contentious issue right now, and one that is highly spoken about amongst the servents - especially those in the UK. What do we translate? and who do we translate for?

Translation has to be done based on meaning. We translate the meaning - not the literal sense. Liturgical English, as far as I can see is OK.

Can you give some examples. I find this extremely interesting?!

If you take the liturgy of St. Basil, maybe I take it for granted due to my upbringing, but I find this very easy to understand. I'm personally all for making liturgical texts easy to understand, but in no way should it be a trade-off for dogmatic and theological accuracy. Both can be achieved.

I think you are talking about "God made man in incorruption".

Am I right??

I thought about this a lot, and actually - my honest opinion is this: its right the way it is written. It encourages contemplation. THe word "incorruption" means that death did not enter us. But, the word "incorruption" can have many colloquial meanings; and despite whichever meaning you chose to take, I do believe that most interpretations of the word "incorruption" have significance in the correct understanding of this phrase.

If incorruption = the opposite of corruption - this holds true.
if incorruption = not knowing death, not decaying, - this holds true also.

Please feel free to correct me here.

There's a new liturgical book being translated into English - and it seems they are having some issues. I don't know how they are going about translating it, but I sincerely hope that they use professionals to do the translation - with some theological accumen and degrees in translation.

Their problems are as follows: They want to be brave and translate the Coptic into English. lol
Cute!!

THe problem is - there are a few people left who speak Coptic well, and those that do speak it and know it well, have discovered that most coptic texts on the Liturgy have "Greek" inter-twined with the Coptic texts.

This is my understanding so far of their problems.

Now, I myself am only a humble translator of French to English; and I find this task extremely hard as I am not a translator by profession. You honestly need to get the most talented translators (i.e. those that know how to translate the meaning exactly from one language to another) and use them.

The Pope Himself has told us COUNTLESS of times the need for accuracy in translation.

Aiden, the liturgy of St Basil - the one in the CoC in London - You know, the old one. I think it was written by Fr. Tadross Malaty: Have you read this? I'll be honest with you, I find this translation and book very well written and easy to understand. But I should not be used as a benchmark. NOR SHOULD ANYONE WHO IS COPTIC or ARABIC SPEAKING.

Give this translation to someone English speaking and ask them "what did you understand by these phrases"??

See what their contemplations are??

You are right in that we have a duty to evangelise and it is for this reason that translating correctly is one of the biggest and most important services to offer.

Please come back to me with examples of language that you feel is not correctly understood in the current service books. What I can do is pass these comments onto the Committee who are translating the new Kholagy. Now, our publishing house is not involved in this production. We are just friends with the association that is doing this.

I think it is vital to call upon the expertise of those who have a deep theological orthodox understanding as well as those who are masters of translation. Getting just any Coptic-joe to translate could change the meaning, and the meaning produced would be according to his ignorance and limitation in both theology and the English language.

When Comparative Theology or even the Divinity of Christ was being translated - do you realise how long it took to translate ONE line? ONE!! ONE LINE!! (from Arabic to English!). Well, I can tell you this: the Pope expected it to take long, and he demands perfection in such things. So, Aiden, its not an easy task, and unless you get professionals of Theology & Translation working together, i don't think the outcome will be constructive.

clay

CertifiedOrthodox, thanks for your insight. I certainly agree- it is a contentious issue, and I think people across the globe can benefit from each others' insights. I love your frank and sober reasoning, too.