[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=734.msg72817#msg72817 date=1182272214] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
It boils down to the individual, because not all people would be able to accept the fact that their future spouse actually slept with another person, regardless of whether they repented or not. Now, let me specify, when I speak about adultery in this context, i'm talking about the actual act of sleeping with another person out of wedlock. That is just a reality. Granted, some people reflect Christ's love more than others, and would be willing to accept a person with this sort of background. But there are others who wouldn't.
Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72813#msg72813 date=1182271969] yes it may not be an easy question but it all falls in the hands of the individual as with any other decisions or judgements.....if we were told hold someone to their sins then is that not judging?
as we all know it's the person's choise. it would be judging becasue that is a greif sin that the person did towards another more than towoards God. Christ doesn't hold you acountable for a sin another did even thoo u became one by His grace....so He gives u the choise. than if u choose to forgive, than you'll be forgiven a lot in heaven.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72822#msg72822 date=1182272429] Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
is this directly to Knfoc....or i can answer......becasue i can ya3ny, :D
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72822#msg72822 date=1182272429] Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
As Christians, we are virgins because we love the Lord. That goes without saying. HOWEVER, don't forget that we are also humans, and we have faults. It shouldn't be surprising that if one is a virgin, they would want to marry someone else who is a virgin so that their first sexual encounter is all the more special.
here's my thing.......... we are a talkative community.....we talk about love and forgivness and not judging etc.......but do we practice it?? if a rapist converted or a murderer?? we cant forget it, its always going to be in the back of our minds......but if we truly love someone and are willing to give them that chance is it wrong to be cautious with them??
[quote author=minagir link=topic=734.msg72823#msg72823 date=1182272475] [quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72813#msg72813 date=1182271969] yes it may not be an easy question but it all falls in the hands of the individual as with any other decisions or judgements.....if we were told hold someone to their sins then is that not judging?
as we all know it's the person's choise. it would be judging becasue that is a greif sin that the person did towards another more than towoards God. Christ doesn't hold you acountable for a sin another did even thoo u became one by His grace....so He gives u the choise. than if u choose to forgive, than you'll be forgiven a lot in heaven.
Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
1) Its none of anyone's business someone's past - whatever they did - if they stole, smoked, adultary, begged.. whatever.. Therefore, its not for u to forgive... u werent part of that person's past!?
2) If you hold anything someone has done against that person - how on earth is this Christian. Its a SIN to hold it against them if they have repented and confessed for anything. How then is it you can say its a "personal" choice???
Its like abouna saying: "Thou shalt not kill my children, but its a personal choice! If u can refrain from killing, great, if u want to beat the hell out of your brother if he annoys you, God understands!"
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72828#msg72828 date=1182272752] here's my thing.......... we are a talkative community.....we talk about love and forgivness and not judging etc.......but do we practice it?? if a rapist converted or a murderer?? we cant forget it, its always going to be in the back of our minds......but if we truly love someone and are willing to give them that chance is it wrong to be cautious with them??
Excellent question. I do not see anything wrong with being cautious whatsoever. Repentance is a changing of one's mind 180 degrees. It is a commitment to change behaviour and choices in life that lead to greater purity. Now, this comes out in a person's actions and with time, one can see that. However, just because a person comes up to you and says, 'Hey look, I've repented of such and such a sin and won't do it again', there is nothing wrong to be skeptical. You should encourage the individual by all means, but that does not mean you should (or have to) commit the rest of your life (i.e. marriage) to them. God is the only One who sees our hearts and thus He is the only One who knows who has made sincere repentance and who hasn't. We can never fully know (unless God chooses to reveal it to us).
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=734.msg72833#msg72833 date=1182273070] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72828#msg72828 date=1182272752] here's my thing.......... we are a talkative community.....we talk about love and forgivness and not judging etc.......but do we practice it?? if a rapist converted or a murderer?? we cant forget it, its always going to be in the back of our minds......but if we truly love someone and are willing to give them that chance is it wrong to be cautious with them??
Excellent question. I do not see anything wrong with being cautious whatsoever. Repentance is a changing of one's mind 180 degrees. It is a commitment to change behaviour and choices in life that lead to greater purity. Now, this comes out in a person's actions and with time, one can see that. However, just because a person comes up to you and says, 'Hey look, I've repented of such and such a sin and won't do it again', there is nothing wrong to be skeptical. You should encourage the individual by all means, but that does not mean you should (or have to) commit the rest of your life (i.e. marriage) to them. God is the only One who sees our hearts and thus He is the only One who knows who has made sincere repentance and who hasn't. We can never fully know (unless God chooses to reveal it to us).
What are u being cautious about? Whether they've repented for their past or not?
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72830#msg72830 date=1182272833] Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
yes. if a man forgives his wife for cheating on him. than khalas, they can live normally.
1) Its none of anyone's business someone's past - whatever they did - if they stole, smoked, adultary, begged.. whatever.. Therefore, its not for u to forgive... u werent part of that person's past!?
here is the thing....you're talking about ppl who are not married yet, am talking about those who are. but i guess ur right......u don't forgive. but u have the rit to choose or not and the right to know or not.
2) If you hold anything someone has done against that person - how on earth is this Christian. Its a SIN to hold it against them if they have repented and confessed for anything. How then is it you can say its a "personal" choice???
Its like abouna saying: "Thou shalt not kill my children, but its a personal choice! If u can refrain from killing, great, if u want to beat the hell out of your brother if he annoys you, God understands!"
What kind of logic is that?
again ya habibi, i was talking about full married couples.
wow i love how this topic was made like 3 years ago, and 3 years later the topic goes to 3 pages in 1 day lol and though i am young, and don't know much about this, i think they should have the same opinions in things in order for the relationship to go well.
A similar set of values is essential - the same opinions on everything would be like marrying yourself - which is, alas, what some people seek to do! Men who wish their wives to be submissive and obedient usually forget that they are called to be caring and submissive to their wife.
As long as we never forget that our love for another is part of the greater love we have for Him, and as long as we remember that our husband/wife is also a child of God, we shall not stray far from the way.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=734.msg72838#msg72838 date=1182273589] [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72830#msg72830 date=1182272833] Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
it is ur choice as to whether u wish to be with someone who is a smoker or not....eventho its all according to God's will.....we have been given the mind to think as an individual and choose what is in our best interests and what isnt...... jus as Christ forgives so we must forgive......if your engaged to a young gurl or guy (doesnt matter the sex) and they admit to u that they have been previously engaged in a number of inappropriate and sexual behaviours/acts.....wat wud ur response be? is in within ur right to say its ok i forgive u?? NO coz the sin wasnt committed against you but people seem to belive or feel in debt becoz their past may well and truly decide ones future
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72875#msg72875 date=1182325225] [quote author=minagir link=topic=734.msg72838#msg72838 date=1182273589] [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72830#msg72830 date=1182272833] Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
it is ur choice as to whether u wish to be with someone who is a smoker or not....eventho its all according to God's will.....we have been given the mind to think as an individual and choose what is in our best interests and what isnt...... jus as Christ forgives so we must forgive......if your engaged to a young gurl or guy (doesnt matter the sex) and they admit to u that they have been previously engaged in a number of inappropriate and sexual behaviours/acts.....wat wud ur response be? is in within ur right to say its ok i forgive u?? NO coz the sin wasnt committed against you but people seem to belive or feel in debt becoz their past may well and truly decide ones future
Guys, i totally agree with Kerestina... I think the problem was with the misunderstanding caused with Minagir / Anglican (John) and Knfoc: Mina was referring to forging a sin that was caused during marriage: YES.. this IS personal choice. Christ himself is not asking u to forgive adultary when committed by a spouse. However, before marriage, after someone has repented and confessed for ANYTHING they could have done, it would be a sin from you side to hold it against them. Holding it against them WOULD mean not marrying them BECAUSE they did that despite having repented for it!
I mean, i hate lying for example, or stealing, ok.. let's say a girl told me she stole some sweets from a sweet store when she was 10 years old. OK? If she repented and confessed for it, i cant say to myself "well... u know.. perhaps i should find someone MORE honest??" That would be holding it against her!!
[quote author=Anglian link=topic=734.msg72871#msg72871 date=1182320888] A similar set of values is essential - the same opinions on everything would be like marrying yourself - which is, alas, what some people seek to do! Men who wish their wives to be submissive and obedient usually forget that they are called to be caring and submissive to their wife.
As long as we never forget that our love for another is part of the greater love we have for Him, and as long as we remember that our husband/wife is also a child of God, we shall not stray far from the way.
In Christ,
John i think if 2 people have different opinions, it can become a threat for the other. That's simply because we, without noticing, emanate our values. We even do this subconsciously at different social and professional levels of interaction with others. So, it would scare us if we married someone that didnt share out values because, to some extent, they'd be trying to pursuade us towards their standards and ideals.
Comments
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
It boils down to the individual, because not all people would be able to accept the fact that their future spouse actually slept with another person, regardless of whether they repented or not. Now, let me specify, when I speak about adultery in this context, i'm talking about the actual act of sleeping with another person out of wedlock. That is just a reality. Granted, some people reflect Christ's love more than others, and would be willing to accept a person with this sort of background. But there are others who wouldn't.
Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
yes it may not be an easy question but it all falls in the hands of the individual as with any other decisions or judgements.....if we were told hold someone to their sins then is that not judging?
as we all know it's the person's choise. it would be judging becasue that is a greif sin that the person did towards another more than towoards God. Christ doesn't hold you acountable for a sin another did even thoo u became one by His grace....so He gives u the choise.
than if u choose to forgive, than you'll be forgiven a lot in heaven.
Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
is this directly to Knfoc....or i can answer......becasue i can ya3ny, :D
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72822#msg72822 date=1182272429]
Knfoc, virginity is a spiritual concept as well as a physical state also. Are christians who are virgins , virgins because they want to marry a virgin, or virgins because they love the Lord??? Which one?
As Christians, we are virgins because we love the Lord. That goes without saying. HOWEVER, don't forget that we are also humans, and we have faults. It shouldn't be surprising that if one is a virgin, they would want to marry someone else who is a virgin so that their first sexual encounter is all the more special.
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72813#msg72813 date=1182271969]
yes it may not be an easy question but it all falls in the hands of the individual as with any other decisions or judgements.....if we were told hold someone to their sins then is that not judging?
as we all know it's the person's choise. it would be judging becasue that is a greif sin that the person did towards another more than towoards God. Christ doesn't hold you acountable for a sin another did even thoo u became one by His grace....so He gives u the choise.
than if u choose to forgive, than you'll be forgiven a lot in heaven.
Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
1) Its none of anyone's business someone's past - whatever they did - if they stole, smoked, adultary, begged.. whatever..
Therefore, its not for u to forgive... u werent part of that person's past!?
2) If you hold anything someone has done against that person - how on earth is this Christian. Its a SIN to hold it against them if they have repented and confessed for anything. How then is it you can say its a "personal" choice???
Its like abouna saying: "Thou shalt not kill my children, but its a personal choice! If u can refrain from killing, great, if u want to beat the hell out of your brother if he annoys you, God understands!"
What kind of logic is that?
Im just curious!?????
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72828#msg72828 date=1182272752]
here's my thing.......... we are a talkative community.....we talk about love and forgivness and not judging etc.......but do we practice it?? if a rapist converted or a murderer?? we cant forget it, its always going to be in the back of our minds......but if we truly love someone and are willing to give them that chance is it wrong to be cautious with them??
Excellent question. I do not see anything wrong with being cautious whatsoever. Repentance is a changing of one's mind 180 degrees. It is a commitment to change behaviour and choices in life that lead to greater purity. Now, this comes out in a person's actions and with time, one can see that. However, just because a person comes up to you and says, 'Hey look, I've repented of such and such a sin and won't do it again', there is nothing wrong to be skeptical. You should encourage the individual by all means, but that does not mean you should (or have to) commit the rest of your life (i.e. marriage) to them. God is the only One who sees our hearts and thus He is the only One who knows who has made sincere repentance and who hasn't. We can never fully know (unless God chooses to reveal it to us).
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
[quote author=kerestina link=topic=734.msg72828#msg72828 date=1182272752]
here's my thing.......... we are a talkative community.....we talk about love and forgivness and not judging etc.......but do we practice it?? if a rapist converted or a murderer?? we cant forget it, its always going to be in the back of our minds......but if we truly love someone and are willing to give them that chance is it wrong to be cautious with them??
Excellent question. I do not see anything wrong with being cautious whatsoever. Repentance is a changing of one's mind 180 degrees. It is a commitment to change behaviour and choices in life that lead to greater purity. Now, this comes out in a person's actions and with time, one can see that. However, just because a person comes up to you and says, 'Hey look, I've repented of such and such a sin and won't do it again', there is nothing wrong to be skeptical. You should encourage the individual by all means, but that does not mean you should (or have to) commit the rest of your life (i.e. marriage) to them. God is the only One who sees our hearts and thus He is the only One who knows who has made sincere repentance and who hasn't. We can never fully know (unless God chooses to reveal it to us).
What are u being cautious about? Whether they've repented for their past or not?
In short: yes.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
In short: yes.
OK.. but do u agree with Mina/Anglican?? are both your opinions the same.. im getting a bit lost
Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
yes. if a man forgives his wife for cheating on him. than khalas, they can live normally.
here is the thing....you're talking about ppl who are not married yet, am talking about those who are. but i guess ur right......u don't forgive. but u have the rit to choose or not and the right to know or not.
again ya habibi, i was talking about full married couples.
I agree with what John has posted, yes.
and though i am young, and don't know much about this, i think they should have the same opinions in things in order for the relationship to go well.
As long as we never forget that our love for another is part of the greater love we have for Him, and as long as we remember that our husband/wife is also a child of God, we shall not stray far from the way.
In Christ,
John
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72830#msg72830 date=1182272833]
Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
it is ur choice as to whether u wish to be with someone who is a smoker or not....eventho its all according to God's will.....we have been given the mind to think as an individual and choose what is in our best interests and what isnt......
jus as Christ forgives so we must forgive......if your engaged to a young gurl or guy (doesnt matter the sex) and they admit to u that they have been previously engaged in a number of inappropriate and sexual behaviours/acts.....wat wud ur response be? is in within ur right to say its ok i forgive u?? NO coz the sin wasnt committed against you but people seem to belive or feel in debt becoz their past may well and truly decide ones future
[quote author=minagir link=topic=734.msg72838#msg72838 date=1182273589]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=734.msg72830#msg72830 date=1182272833]
Mina, I don't understand habibi... how is this a personal choice - on the individual to decide whether he/she forgives his/her partner???
it is ur choice as to whether u wish to be with someone who is a smoker or not....eventho its all according to God's will.....we have been given the mind to think as an individual and choose what is in our best interests and what isnt......
jus as Christ forgives so we must forgive......if your engaged to a young gurl or guy (doesnt matter the sex) and they admit to u that they have been previously engaged in a number of inappropriate and sexual behaviours/acts.....wat wud ur response be? is in within ur right to say its ok i forgive u?? NO coz the sin wasnt committed against you but people seem to belive or feel in debt becoz their past may well and truly decide ones future
Guys, i totally agree with Kerestina... I think the problem was with the misunderstanding caused with Minagir / Anglican (John) and Knfoc: Mina was referring to forging a sin that was caused during marriage: YES.. this IS personal choice. Christ himself is not asking u to forgive adultary when committed by a spouse. However, before marriage, after someone has repented and confessed for ANYTHING they could have done, it would be a sin from you side to hold it against them. Holding it against them WOULD mean not marrying them BECAUSE they did that despite having repented for it!
I mean, i hate lying for example, or stealing, ok.. let's say a girl told me she stole some sweets from a sweet store when she was 10 years old. OK? If she repented and confessed for it, i cant say to myself "well... u know.. perhaps i should find someone MORE honest??" That would be holding it against her!!
A similar set of values is essential - the same opinions on everything would be like marrying yourself - which is, alas, what some people seek to do! Men who wish their wives to be submissive and obedient usually forget that they are called to be caring and submissive to their wife.
As long as we never forget that our love for another is part of the greater love we have for Him, and as long as we remember that our husband/wife is also a child of God, we shall not stray far from the way.
In Christ,
John
i think if 2 people have different opinions, it can become a threat for the other. That's simply because we, without noticing, emanate our values. We even do this subconsciously at different social and professional levels of interaction with others.
So, it would scare us if we married someone that didnt share out values because, to some extent, they'd be trying to pursuade us towards their standards and ideals.