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The cancer called Terrorism
Hello everyone,
In the aftermath of the deadly terrorist acts, this time in India, there are questions being asked about the involvement of persons / groups of a certain faith. Expectedly, there are varied responses with some saying that the particular faith preaches peace whereas others maintain that it instructs elimination of non-believers (infidels). Now, terrorism has become a global phenomenon and something that everyone is vulnerable to. Many right wing fundamentals would advocate a military response - the effectiveness of which is doubted in the absence of a tangible and perceptible target.Human life seems to have lost its value for these misguided perpetrators.As Orthodox Christians, how are we supposed to face up to this danger?
God bless,
Paulos
In the aftermath of the deadly terrorist acts, this time in India, there are questions being asked about the involvement of persons / groups of a certain faith. Expectedly, there are varied responses with some saying that the particular faith preaches peace whereas others maintain that it instructs elimination of non-believers (infidels). Now, terrorism has become a global phenomenon and something that everyone is vulnerable to. Many right wing fundamentals would advocate a military response - the effectiveness of which is doubted in the absence of a tangible and perceptible target.Human life seems to have lost its value for these misguided perpetrators.As Orthodox Christians, how are we supposed to face up to this danger?
God bless,
Paulos
Comments
It is evident and unquestionable that Sharia Law IS the objective of Islam. Its objective is to enforce it on everyone and to make sure that the dominating incumbent power of any state is Islamic.
The west, until 9/11, were not at all interested in persecutions of Copts nor other minorities in Islamic States until they themselves were awakened by the reality and knowledge of what Islam is about.
For example, it is extremely unthinkable for many muslims that Kashmir should be populated with Muslims yet run by non-Muslims. If the Indian Government adopted Islam, then there would be more peace in the region. If the American government were not seen as pro-Christian, nor pro-Israeli there would be a blind-eye given to any war it may be involved in - in any islamic country. As you can see, Shias are killing Sunnis in Iraq, and all Al-Qaeda seem to be concerned about is non-Muslim involvement and rule in an islamic country. This is unnacceptable for them, and it is the requirements given to them from the Quran.
The reason why some muslims adhere to such rules that require them to retaliate against non-islamic rulers who are occupying an Islamic country, and why some do not care, is probably the same as why some Christians refuse to engage in sex before marriage and why others may think its not a big deal.
In other words, islam spreads itself through fear.
So - what is an Orthodox Christian supposed to do?
My point of view is this: As an Orthodox Christian minority who has endured more than 1370 years of Islamic rule and subsequent persection, we should thank God that at least the western hemisphere are beginning to see life the way our ancestors saw it. I think the US Government are not naive, but maybe politically correct to never admit that Islam is the cause of the problem.
The group that is responsible for attacking sites in Mumbai has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda. Yet, they share the same goal: They cannot tolerate, according to their faith, an Islamic State being ruled by Kafirs. An oil tanker was hijaked near Somalia. Somalian pirates are now eager in rescuing the tanker and its crew ONLY because its unlawful for a muslim tanker to be held at ransom by other muslims. See?
Its in their faith.
I think this intangible target you are talking about will soon have a much clearer and more precise shape once political correctness and naivity on the part of the US and British Governments give way to common sense and truth. Their enemy is Islam, and Islam breeds this hatred ideology in the minds of those who are willing to practice it to the letter. They are of the opinion that Islam is full of peace and certain people have their own hate filled agenda and are using Islam to disguise that. Such naivity will only cause more deaths.
As Christians, we should not stop to warn about the lessons from our history - how Islam forced many Copts to convert to Islam when it entered Egypt to terrorise it to convert to Islam. We should not forget that.
I put up some news clippings of crimes commited by christians against muslims, because I don't think it's fair to discuss this issue from one side only...
True, that there are verses in the Quran that incite hatred and violence, but there are also those verses which encourage love and peace and mercy...
Many muslims nowadays believe that the verses like "Fight the infidels until death" should not be interpreted literally, but more in a figurative sense... (what I'm trying to say is that many muslims are trying to combine their religion with a peaceful way of living with others in the world..)
Christianity in itself does not encourage violence to the contrary, it's a religion of peace and love and forgiveness and the greatest example of course is our Lord...
But unfortunatly, many so-called christians, don't follow those divine teachings..
"At least seven people have been killed and three mosques burnt down in
clashes between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria's north-eastern Adamawa
State."
"The local Red Cross said Christian extremists with automatic weapons and machetes killed between 500 and 600 Muslims in the Plateau State city."
"Rioting has broken out in the northern city of Kano at a rally to protest at the recent killing of hundreds of Muslims in central Nigeria. Reporters and eyewitnesses have seen at least 10 bodies at the scene."
"The central government in Belgrade, mainly controlled by Serbian Orthodox Christians, had attempted to crush the rebellion. They "used excessive force against the Albanian civilian population, destroying villages and driving people from their homes...By September 1998...there was a full-blown humanitarian crisis in Kosovo."
( in the examples I gave, there was violence from both sides... and civilians were killed)
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7385.msg97751#msg97751 date=1228043122]
I think the US Government are not naive, but maybe politically correct to never admit that Islam is the cause of the problem.
Oh I think, that president in his undiplomatic and not well thought out speech, pretty much said it:
On Sunday, Bush warned Americans that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while."
Now as you all know the crusades were basically wars by christians on muslims, and this is exactly what Bush claimed the war on terrorism is... a war on muslims...
To answer the original question: what should be do as orthodox christians?
I think we should be very frank with ourselves and take the wood out of our own eyes as persons, and if we have any hatred in our hearts, then we should know that we have already strayed...
I would say that we should pray, pray a lot, pray that those who use naive, frustrated people to do their dirty work would be stopped, pray that the persecuted and the hurt around the world would find comfort in Christ, pray that those wars waged in the name of religion would finally stop, pray that the Lord may find us worthy to bear our cross and follow Him, to be real christians, to be the light of the world, the salt of the earth, pray that He would look upon us with mercy, for all of us fall short of the glory of Christ...
God Bless
Please pray for me
In both these posts, Islam was the first religion mentioned, why is that? Are we judging? Perhaps too quickly, the orthodox copts, because of bad experiences have come to say that Islam is a terrorist nation, while a lot of people might agree, I don't like the idea being stuck in our heads, because we aren't judging the religion, we are judging the people of the religion. Hate the sin, but love the sinner, and that doesn't happen when we talk about Islam, we begin to accuse them of every crime, what happened to forgive and forget?
No. I'm judging the religion. I'm judging based on facts of history.
Amr Ibn Aas came to Egypt with 4000 men with ONE aim: to convert it to Islam. Can you deny that???
If I were to judge it by its followers, then one muslim guy invited me to a cup of tea once. How nice. But I couldnt forget one small thing he said:
"There will only be peace when the world accepts Islam".
But it was awfully nice of him to invite me for the tea.
first it's not A SIN.
Just when you judge, make sure to be able to accept judgment upon yourself from others, and also to not bring other sins with it....
I have a great number of muslim friends whom I admire for their straightforwardness and their kindness. However, they all share one thing in common:
They truley believe that we are kafirs and they pray for us to Allah that we become Muslim, and they feel that there will only be world peace when the world accepts Islam.
But they are nice guys.
I'm just concerned at the what the religion does to the person, not what the person does to the religion. My friends make Islam look great. But Islam does not make them look great. On the contrary, I do not know one person - even a saint, that makes Christianity look great, but it is Christianity that makes them great.
1. The persons who take to violent methods are either from an impoverished and illiterate background who have been
mislead by "scholars" having extremist views to carry out these acts for financial gain.
2. The other category are persons with a high level of technical skill / financial resources who look at the decadent
culture of the west creeping into their society and corrupting the youth - hence their justification.
3. They have an almost rabid hate of Israel, Jews - even the star of David appearing on a book,T-shirt or toy is
offensive.
4. They look at the fragmentation in Christendom with all these Protestant factions singing different tunes, different
Bible translations, widespread disagreement on many issues etc. and believe it is easy to sway a few of them into
their fold. So much publicity and encouragement is given to those converting to Islam.
5. They believe the military action in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. are a direct attack on their faith. Hence they sympathize
with those who "stand up for the faith" and are "martyred" for their cause. Thus they justify the acts of suicide
bombers in Iraq, pirates from Somalia, rebels in Kashmir, Chechnya, etc. They question why the west is not doing
anything in Zimbabwe where Mugabe is plundering away.
6. Many of them sidestep the issue when asked about their patriotism to their home country or adopted country - be it
a sporting event or joining the armed forces.
7. Of course there are also exceptional cases as well. The moderates are mostly the educated classes having
successful family businesses and not averse to mingling with the secular crowd.
There are many things though, that we can learn from them - such as being fastidious in prayer routine come what may, abstention from prohibited vices etc.
If anything some of them are so zealous they think nothing of ramming their ideas into others' heads.Some of the Protestants / Pentecostals are also likewise zealous.
But, as Orthodox, we must let our living, our choices, our priorities and our steadfastness do the talking - quietly but firmly - not being swayed by trends or nice-sounding philosophies. The writings of our Church Fathers is one big treasure that we would be foolish not to delve into.
God bless,
Paulos
Here's something I'd like to share in the midst of all this misery...
The Serenity Prayer - by Reinhold Niebuhr
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
...
God bless,
Paulos
But, as Orthodox, we must let our living, our choices, our priorities and our steadfastness do the talking - quietly but firmly - not being swayed by trends or nice-sounding philosophies. The writings of our Church Fathers is one big treasure that we would be foolish not to delve into.
That's strange, the Pope in the late 1970's travelled to the USA to discuss injustices to Copts in Egypt during the Carter administration. He didnt say to himself "Our steadfastness will do all the talking".
On the contrary, I do believe he tried to warn the US about Islamic law being forced upon non muslim minorities.
The entry of Amr Ibn Aas in Egypt with a mandate to rid it of Kafirs was real. This happened. This is not a joke. The same philosophy that led him to conquer Egypt and Islamise it is the same that leads the terrorists to kill innocent people to cleanse a state from non-islamic rule.
The British do not forget their history and have rememberance sunday to mark the end of the war and to commemorate the loss of those who died in the war. Why should we forget our sufferings and what led Egypt to become a minority and a persecuted minority?? What for?
That belittles our suffering.
In fact, if you noticed, this summer every Church in Europe manifested in the streets asking for justice to Copts. I think it is wise for the world to know that what is happening to them, happened to us 1300 years ago.
Wow, I find that really hard to believe, I'm not saying it's not true, it's just that the Pope is very much respected in Egypt for his patriottism and his diplomatic way of dealing with things...
Especially since he's the one who believes all Egypt's problems should be solved within Egypt by the Egyptians, so it would be very strange of him to do such a thing and I never heard of such a visit in a time where any muslim extremist would milk it out to claim that all copts are pro american...
But regardless, I agree with rpm, I think we should stick to our church and its teachings, this is what kept us alive all these years... I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with any copts who ask for America to intervene!!!! Or any other country for that matter... We have God by our side, and it is our right and our duty as christians to stand up for what's right and for truth, but we cannot be traitors while we do it... I'm coptic orthodox, but I'm also Egyptian and I can't have any country intervene with the sovereignty of mine, I agree with the pope, our problems should be handled in Egypt by Egyptians...We don't want to become another Iraq
Also let us not forget that there must have been christians who turned to islam for other reasons than torture and death threats...
As we can see today alos, probably some became muslims to get married to a muslim, some because they were promised wealth, or to stop paying the jizyah...
But anyway, let us not forget that many muslims nowadays are copts (by race), they just turned to Islam somewhere in the past 14 centuries...
And from my personal experience with muslims, I see two big types
1.The open-minded, loving, muslims who really love you as a fellow Egyptian and who treat you well
these people hate terrorism and think it's a wrong portrayal of Islam
(many times you'll find it's people you've known for a very long time (3eshra) in the good old days when muslims and christians got along a lot better and when Egypt was better than some European countries...)
2. The hypocrites, who claim that they love copts just like muslims, but behind your back they hate you and say things about you... they mostly limit their dislike to words, but rarely say anything to your face, you just know they're not being honest
I haven't personally met any extremists yet, but have been told to 'cover up' while walking the streets and know plenty of stories from friends and relatives of a third type who show their dislike in your face and who call you bad names...
Anyways, muslims cannot be all put in one box and judged
there are different types, some good some bad as in any other place in any other religion
I agree with you on the need for making our voice being heard especially in the context of secular or hostile environments. Pardon my lack of in-depth knowledge on Coptic history. As a member of the Malankara Orthodox Church, I have the highest regards for our sister churches. Its just that only lately (2-3 months) have I started reading up on the wider Orthodox history, heritage & traditions. I believe that the Coptic Churches have undergone great persecution in the past.
Being a ultra-minority community in India (less than 3%) has many challenges-more so lately in some states where many priests & nuns were attacked and churches were ransacked or set ablaze in reaction to "forcible conversion of tribals by Christian missionaries".
By being steadfast, I was referring to maintaining our firm unchanging position vis-a-vis the Protestant / Charismatic / Pentecostal groups and other faiths trying to lure us through various methods.
I am also of the view that moderate Islamic countries (Arabian Gulf) should have our support since they grant us the freedom to worship, of course within a certain framework.
God bless,
Paulos
The USA have a Religious Freedom forum. H.H. went to Egypt in the late 70's to address the Carter Administration concerning Religious Freedom and Intolerance in Egypt.
Period.
Maybe its not asking America for help - maybe its warning them!!
You know, if my neighbour comes to attack me for not letting him have my car, i'd discuss it with him 1st. I'd tell him its my car and that he should buy his own car. If he insists, I think I should go to the police. You sound like the neighbour who says "Oooo don't involve the police.. keep it between u".
If that neighbour then causes a heinous crime, the police will ask u: why didnt u complain before or warn us??
That's a very strange behaviour.
The last resort is going to the police for any domestic issues - but when H.H was put in jail during Sadat's tenure, did we just sit back keep it internal??
The public demonstrations from Coptic priests/bishops in the diaspora - was that keeping it internal?? If the Church agreed with what you were saying, they wouldn't have organised rallies in every single European country where they filled the streets with banners screaming "STOP persecutions for the Coptic Christians".
I take it you disagree with these events???
We live in a Global community. Nothing is internal. The only thing that's internal in the world are my socks. That's it.
The day the world realises the hidden agenda of Islam, the better. You are doing your job by telling them.
Look -
if someone wishes to convert to Islam because they want to - I'm all for it. I really am. But if they end up doing it because they're scared, they're frightened, they're tortured etc, then I'm quite against it. The spread of Islam is not through preaching or evangelising - its through the sword. This is not new.
Finally, put it this way:
St George was the ONLY saint to die at the hands of Diocletion. St. Demiana and the others died as a result of his stupid edict. Diocletion on the other hand PERSONALLY knew St. George. He tortured him until his death. St. George was a general in the Roman Army. He had visibility in the Emperor's court. All this was happening before the eyes of St. Constantine the Great who was serving in Diocletion's court.
My point is this: Do you think we should have kept the persecution of St. George internally, and not complained??? Afterall, St. George was part of the Roman Empire, and these things should be kept internally. In fact, Diocletion, according to historians, proved to be a good leader of the Roman Empire. Ask any historian, and they'd tell you that he did some good things for the Roman Empire. A bit like Sadat - he did some good things in the eyes of many. But should we keep it a secret the bad stuff because we are all "Egyptians"!!!!!!
We are not Egyptian!! You are maybe!! I AM NOT. I don't have an Egyptian passport. You do!! Why should i keep this internally for???
don't compare America with the police, please don't
the police are supposed to UPHOLD the law
I don't mind the protests, the demonstrations, the organizations asking for human rights, us asking the certain international organizations (which Egypt is a part of) to do something (like the UN, etc.)
I don't mind all of that, I said it's our duty as christians to stand up for truth and justice, when someone in Europe asks me about what's going on, I honestly reply, there are problems, yes, but in the end we're all Egyptians, and there are many good people
But I don't go around asking other countries to intervene, as I know and hope you do too, what happens when a certain country claims to spread freedom and democracy in the world..
So what I do mind is us asking America or any other country specifically to intervene!
That is treason in my eyes, as an Egyptian in heart and soul, and I'm sure many share my opinion!
Also I know of the existence of copts who don't give a hoot about Egypt and who don't see themselves as Egyptians, I see this fact as very disturbing and saddening, but I must accept it and acknowledge that not everyone feels the same way and the same patriottism that I do feel for this country... But I would love to applaud HH for his love for Egypt and his patriottism and his decision to ban copts from going to Israel as it is an enemy of the great Arab nation of which our country Egypt is a part of, and his solidarity for the Palestenians who suffer under occupation...
Hey hey hey
don't compare America with the police, please don't
the police are supposed to UPHOLD the law
I don't mind the protests, the demonstrations, the organizations asking for human rights, us asking the certain international organizations (which Egypt is a part of) to do something (like the UN, etc.)
I don't mind all of that, I said it's our duty as christians to stand up for truth and justice, when someone in Europe asks me about what's going on, I honestly reply, there are problems, yes, but in the end we're all Egyptians, and there are many good people
But I don't go around asking other countries to intervene, as I know and hope you do too, what happens when a certain country claims to spread freedom and democracy in the world..
So what I do mind is us asking America or any other country specifically to intervene!
That is treason in my eyes, and I'm sure many share my opinion!
Sorry to say this, but your last reply was incoherent. How can you say that you are for demonstrations for Copts asking the international community to intervene in their persecutions, and yet you are against other countries intervening in our problems??
Again, you say "at the end of the day, we are all egyptians".
This drives me crazy!!!!
Look, you are Egyptian right? Imagine you are in Egypt near the Pyramids with your cousins... as you walk around the desert, all of a sudden a man with an AK47 opens fire on a group of Italian tourists killing a nun and many innocent people. You witness this. Do you tell them "We are all Egyptian, please don't be upset"
Do you tell them "Please, let's keep this internal!!"
Do you tell them "Not all muslims are bad"
lol..
You can talk for yourself. I am Coptic Orthodox. not egyptian. There's a difference. I don't have an Egyptian passport. You do. I think intervention by the international community puts pressure on Egypt to step up its security and intolerance to extremism, and it shames at the same time the fanatical movements in Egypt who think that killing kafirs gives them 72 virgins in paradise.
there is a difference between the one and the other
and plz read the modification in my post
I know you don't care at all about Egypt, and it's your right to do so, I can't force you, but you must also respect the fact that the majority of copts are Egyptian, and that the Coptic Church has undeniable, unbreakable bond with the country of Egypt
and so when someone in the west asks me about the situation of copts IN EGYPT
I tell them in all honesty that there are problems, but that we shouldn't exxagerate and that in the end, IN EGYPT, the EGYPTIAN MUSLIMS and the EGYPTIAN COPTS are ALL EGYPTIAN
so when I think our government is wrong then I support us demonstrating and protesting to international organizations (and there is also the international court btw because Egypt did sign certain treaties and declarations that it's not abiding by)
So international pressure by international organizations yes, but not humiliation and not the cancellation of the honour of Egyptians and their sovereignty
I don't ask America to come and create Iraq 2 in my country
and anyone who claims to be an Egyptian (and yes there are) and does that, is in my eyes, a traitor to his country
yes by the international community not one country, thus international organizations, human rights organizations but NOT AMERICA specifically or any other country
there is a difference between the one and the other
and plz read the modification in my post
I know you don't care at all about Egypt, and it's your right to do so, I can't force you, but you must also respect the fact that the majority of copts are Egyptian, and that the Coptic Church has undeniable, unbreakable bond with the country of Egypt
and so when someone in the west asks me about the situation of copts IN EGYPT
I tell them in all honesty that there are problems, but that we shouldn't exxagerate and that in the end, IN EGYPT, the EGYPTIAN MUSLIMS and the EGYPTIAN COPTS are ALL EGYPTIAN
so when I think our government is wrong then I support us demonstrating and protesting to international organizations (and there is also the international court btw because Egypt did sign certain treaties and declarations that it's not abiding by)
So international pressure by international organizations yes, but not humiliation and not the cancellation of the honour of Egyptians and their sovereignty
I don't ask America to come and create Iraq 2 in my country
and anyone who claims to be an Egyptian (and yes there are) and does that, is in my eyes, a traitor to his country
First of all, I didnt say I didnt care about Egypt.
Secondly. why define the problem as only being relevant to Egypt!! If muslims and hindus are killing Christians in India, does it matter what nationality the Christians are? If a Christian is being killed because he's a Christian, why does their nationality matter???
Do you see yourself as a Christian 1st or an Egyptian 1st???
Why bring nationality into religious problems of intolerance???
I don't say the problem is only in Egypt or whatever, but as there are good muslims in Egypt and bad, there are good muslims in India and bad, in any place in the world
Just as in Nigeria there are bad christians and good, in Serbia, in Egypt, in USA, etc
Nationality doesn't have to do with it, discrimination is discrimination and persecution is persecution no matter who does it to whom, but in Egypt, nationality (the fact that they are all Egyptian) should be an extra motivation as to why at least in Egypt muslims and christians should live together in peace, we share heritage, country, language, sense of humor, looks, traditions, etc. and the only thing that's difference between us is religion
What I mean to say is: we hate the sin, not the sinner
we can't generalize and make Islam = Terrorism (I'm not saying anyone said that)
as I showed in my first post, terrorism is not a monopoly to muslims
God bless
Please pray for me
we can't generalize and make Islam = Terrorism (I'm not saying anyone said that)
As I said, good muslims make Islam look good, but good Christians do not make our faith look good. Our faith makes us look good. Even muslims think so. We end up liking Islam simply because they are good people.
Islam is God sanctioned terrorism in as much as its "temporary marriages" is basically God sanctioned prostitution. I.e those who wish to benefit from having a temporary wife can, those that don't - are free not to, but if the need arises, a muslim has the choice to be absolved of terrorism or adultary simply because his religion allows it.
And there are many 'unhumane' things in Islam where there is discussion between them as to its validity and the validity of many hadith's is being questioned...
Also many people who see themselves as good muslims, completely disagree with the use of violence and choose to interpret certain quranic verses differently
I'm not defending Islam, obviously, if I thought it was the right religion, I wouldn't be christian, but I am defending moderate muslims who choose to live by moderate Islam
even if I don't agree with its beliefs, at least they do respect that I have mine and leave me alone and we can live together in peace
But QT I definitly agree with you, sometimes I wonder why those moderate open-minded muslims don't just become christians, because there are certain quranic verses that just can't be interpreted in a good way, and I wonder how they can't see that christianity is the perfect religion for them
I mean the problem with the Quran is that it incoherent
one moment they call us (christians) people of the book
and Mohammed said they should treat us, copts, specifically well
but in another verse it says that christians and jews (also people of the book) are the sons of apes and pigs
so any muslim basically has to choose between one way or another, but thankfully there are still those who choose to treat us with respect and this is much appreciated
But you know what's sad???
The muslims, when they commit a deed like that, although many disagree, still they can say God wants that
and although many know that God cannot be that cruel and only use religion for propaganda, I'm sure some actually believe they have 70 virgins waiting for them in heaven for doing God's will
but when christians, people who call themselves followers of Christ, commit such crimes against humanity, there is no excuse, they are going right against the teachings of their God and are breaking His rules, especially when they claim in an interview that the wars they started were sanctioned by the Bible, which Bible is that???
And the crimes commited in the Middleages for example where poeple were killed and again it was said this is the will of God...
Indeed, QT, it is christianity that makes us look good, because many of us unfortunately are just a disgrace to christianity...
God bless
Please pray for me
At the same time, adultary is wrong. lol
At the very same time, having sex outside marriage is wrong. So, the prophet figured out how to get the best of both worlds:
* Marry, pay her, and divorce her. In fact, the name of the marriage is "temporary" marriage. That is a paradox as marriage, by definition is never temporary. The entire meaning of marriage is that it is for life. A life long union.
But this marriage involves money, and a time limit... and in the Quran it specifies the time limit: from 10 mins to 5 years.
How can anyone NOT interpret this as God sanctioned prostitution???
Look, forget America, Amnesty International have been complaining that temporary marriages are basically legalised prostitution. In fact, if you care so much about Egypt, it has one of the highest cases of "temporary marriages".
Why would the west care about this? They have boyfriends and girlfriends which costs much less and you don't even need to get divorced. In fact, you don't even need to call it a marriage - you can call it "friendship". So, you can get married that way and never worry about telling someone you were ever divorced. Its not so surprising American girls convert to Islam. They see it as a conservative religion and so different to their culture - but they share a lot in common. Immams argue that Islam with its temporary marriages offers you to live a righteous life and fill out the desires of your heart at the same time.
I really don't know how someone (especially female) could volunetraly leave christianity in which man and woman are equal and go to Islam
I've heard someone say: the moderate and openminded muslims aren't really muslims anymore...
Still, I said I never defended Islam in the first place, but I think it's important there is no hatred or misunderstanding in the matter that there are good muslims (or whatever one might want to call them..)
That's even more puzzeling to me, the difference between women in christianity and in islam....
I really don't know how someone (especially female) could volunetraly leave christianity in which man and woman are equal and go to Islam
I've heard someone say: the moderate and openminded muslims aren't really muslims anymore...
Still, I said I never defended Islam in the first place, but I think it's important there is no hatred or misunderstanding in the matter that there are good muslims (or whatever one might want to call them..)
Its about time we stop judging a religion by its followers. We should judge it by its content. Period.
Gb
Agreed :)
Gb
wow godislove260.....that's the first "bad thing" i see you agree on against nonbelievers....to be more specific...NON-Orthodox... : ::) ;D