Fr. Peter you are now being absurd. I have told you and will tell you again, if Pope Shenouda believes they are not heretics how then could he be depsoed? It comes down to interpretation, please do not try and coax me into condemning someone, that is not my position, hopefully soon I will be able to discuss this in depth with them.
Fr. Peter I know that many are going to find this disrespectful that I continually disagree with you but it is very odd. You assert, without actual sources, that it is only some Lutherans that accept this "rapture" idea. This is wrong. John Darby was not a lutheran number one, he was an evangelical who established the foundation of dispensationalism which "Rapture" came from. Again I would like your sources to your claim that 250+ million dont believe in the rapture. Joyce Meyer has mentioned this, it is a constant subject on TBN, one of the largest evangelical networks. Lets not forget the Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye, which was a best seller. You could however make the case that while the denomination itself does not believe in it, the congregation very well might. Which further reinforces the argument that there is a lack of structure and unity in the church itself. I would assume that the early reformation churches do not believe in it, as the idea came after them. We could also talk about Chilliasm, how many churches do you think believe that Christ will come back and reign for 1000 years? Or Montanism, which is almost the same as Pentecostalism.
We have to remember that the devil is constantly trying to destroy the church, we have to watch, not worry about "being cool" with other denominations or religions.
Ioannes, you are obviously not bothering to read my posts at all and just replying immediately because you have put into my mouth the very opposite statements to those which I made.
Here is what I said...
Certainly to the best of my knowledge [b]no Lutherans (the original Protestants) accept such a teaching.[/b]
All of the figures I presented are available online from the various Churches websites.
Lutherans do not teach the rapture - 75 million Anglicans do not teach the rapture - 75 million etc etc
You refer to evangelicals, but I have already said this as well..
So in actual fact rather a large proportion of Protestants do not accept this teaching at all. Those that do are mostly to be found among evangelical, bible-church, pentecostal and non-denominational groups - all of which tend ot be united in not having a denominational structure but being directed to a great extent by the personality and opinions of their pastor.
I do not know many people here in the UK who believe that Christ will return in a secret rapture, or will reign on earth for 1000 years. Certainly I know zero Anglicans who believe it. Those who do, as I have already said, are mostly evangelicals, but even then not those in long established denominations. They are mostly those in so called 'New Churches' or American inspired Pentecostal Churches.
Honestly I think it is mostly in America. I dont know that I have been to a church that does not teach the rapture, or where most of the congregation does not believe it. Every church I have been to taught Chilliasm, or atleast a form of Chilliasm. So this could likely be unique to American denominations. Rapture will take away the believers so they dont experience pain, Chilliasm is a materialistic wonderland. So of course these would appeal to our society. I have only been to england a few times so I dont know their society or culture very well. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
P.S. Sorry for the late response, I was interrupted by a telemarketer.
(Correct me if I am wrong) We don't believe in the rapture!!! It doesn't say it anywhere in the bible the Christ is going to take all the good people up to heaven while leaving others to suffer on earth. Please pray for me. God bless.
Comments
Fr. Peter I know that many are going to find this disrespectful that I continually disagree with you but it is very odd. You assert, without actual sources, that it is only some Lutherans that accept this "rapture" idea. This is wrong. John Darby was not a lutheran number one, he was an evangelical who established the foundation of dispensationalism which "Rapture" came from. Again I would like your sources to your claim that 250+ million dont believe in the rapture. Joyce Meyer has mentioned this, it is a constant subject on TBN, one of the largest evangelical networks. Lets not forget the Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye, which was a best seller. You could however make the case that while the denomination itself does not believe in it, the congregation very well might. Which further reinforces the argument that there is a lack of structure and unity in the church itself. I would assume that the early reformation churches do not believe in it, as the idea came after them. We could also talk about Chilliasm, how many churches do you think believe that Christ will come back and reign for 1000 years? Or Montanism, which is almost the same as Pentecostalism.
We have to remember that the devil is constantly trying to destroy the church, we have to watch, not worry about "being cool" with other denominations or religions.
Here is what I said...
Certainly to the best of my knowledge [b]no Lutherans (the original Protestants) accept such a teaching.[/b]
All of the figures I presented are available online from the various Churches websites.
Lutherans do not teach the rapture - 75 million
Anglicans do not teach the rapture - 75 million
etc etc
You refer to evangelicals, but I have already said this as well..
So in actual fact rather a large proportion of Protestants do not accept this teaching at all. Those that do are mostly to be found among evangelical, bible-church, pentecostal and non-denominational groups - all of which tend ot be united in not having a denominational structure but being directed to a great extent by the personality and opinions of their pastor.
I do not know many people here in the UK who believe that Christ will return in a secret rapture, or will reign on earth for 1000 years. Certainly I know zero Anglicans who believe it. Those who do, as I have already said, are mostly evangelicals, but even then not those in long established denominations. They are mostly those in so called 'New Churches' or American inspired Pentecostal Churches.
Father Peter
P.S. Sorry for the late response, I was interrupted by a telemarketer.