I just wanted to say that people should make the most of their Father of Confession. In fact he's not only there for confession - he's there to give you advice also. This is really important.
The reason why I put this under the Coptic Orthodox Church is because in the CoC we have this concept of discipleship. Having an FoC that guides you and knows u is really important.
There's a way of chosing an FoC. I'm sure each priest has talents, but they are not all the same when it comes to either confession or advice.
My FoC is brilliant. He's a very good man.
Also, it is important to spend time with your FoC - especially at a young age.
Of course, when I say FoC, i mean not only Father of Confession, but Spiritual Guide also.
Comments
That's true but what if you feel the priest at your church isn't the best to get advice from? And what if there only happens to be one priest at the church you attend and the second closest church is 4 hours away? Not that it happened to me or anything ;D, im just saying: what if?
Can I have his contact info? lol, jk
That's true but what if you feel the priest at your church isn't the best to get advice from? And what if there only happens to be one priest at the church you attend and the second closest church is 4 hours away? Not that it happened to me or anything ;D, im just saying: what if?
Well, the Church accepts that one should have an FoC and a Spiritual Father. Usually, 99.9 % of the cases, it is the same person. However, there are some cases where a priest would even advise you to perhaps confide in a sunday school teacher for your personal problems. I know of a priest who would only take confessions and if by chance, during that confession, you wandered off topic to explain anything, he'd get mad. All he wanted was the sin. "What did you wrong!" - that's all he cares about.
Very rarely did he ask more than the sin itself.
But he was an exception.
Most priests I've confessed to really used to give me excellent advice.
But the point i'm trying to make is that there has to be discipleship. I mean, we do not have "confessionals" - you know.. the little cubicals where u go inside and confess in (as with the Catholics). Our priests have to know us. The catholics now are using less and less the confessionals. They see that the idea is not to just take confessions - like a simple service; but they see it now completely differently: that the service they provide is like treatment for our sins; therefore, the spiritual guidance and discipleship is very important in remedying this.
It is so important to build a relationship with your FoC and stick to one FoC. Like, let's say you are struggling with a certain sin and you are trying your best to overcome it. When your FoC knows how much you are struggling, he won't prevent you from having the Holy Communion. However, if you just show up to Church and tell another priest who doesn't even know you that you've done this certain sin, he may (im NOT saying he will!!) - but he MAY make you abstain from having communion; simply because he's judging the situation, not your entire life and problems.
I feel bad for those that have to travel so much and live away from their families and FoC's. This is the hardest thing.
I feel bad for those that have to travel so much and live away from their families and FoC's. This is the hardest thing.
you kidding?? dee baraka! i feel bad for those who really want good advice but keep getting the same advice everytime they confess, "pray that this won't happen again".
any advice on what he or she should do when this happens? Once again, they only have one priest in church and only 2 churches in the state.
He'd say the same things over and over and over again: "Erfa3aaa albak li rabena" .. and i'd be like "what on earth has that got to do with anything? " -
Like, it made no sense. It didnt make ONE bit of sense at all. He just kept on telling me the same boring stuff every time. In fact, he probably got so bored and didnt know what to say to me, I think he used to avoid me.
I'd be trying to give him hints on what to say .. i'd be like "abouna.. do you think I should read the agpeya more often!?" - but even after giving him ideas and how to think out of the box, he'd still come up with the same lame advice "Erfa3aaa albak le rabena"...
Then I'd tell him "ok.. sure. Is there anything else you think I should be doing!!!!???"
He'd be like "no no.. "
I'd say "ok.. then. I guess we'll see you around".
But it doesnt have to be that way. You can find a priest that is really interested in your sins and your personal life. I know so many that love the gory details, and there are some that are just happy with a 5 minute news brief. Take your pic.
hahaha... your hilarious, but I can't take my pick.. im limited on abounas here.. i have one choice. that's it. I'll just give myself advice like you did.. that might help till rabina yideena another abouna.
Listen, don't give yourself ANY advice.
Here's the best thing you could do to yourself if you can't find an abouna who can listen to your problems.
Get the following books:
a) The Art of Prayer
b) The Philokalia.
Read a bit of these books each day. That should make up for anything you could lose in spiritual advice.. .and Remember: ERFA3AA ALBAK!!!!!
..and QT_PA_2T, ERFA ALBAK LI RABINA!
LOL.. whats wrong with giving myself advice? ill be like oh im not praying from the agpeya everyday, i should really be doing that... or don't lie anymore, "be faithful unto death and i will give you the crown of life".. that's stuff normal abounas would say.. so i'll just say it to myself. but thanks for the recommended books, i'm gonna check them out in my church bookstore.
..and QT_PA_2T, ERFA ALBAK LI RABINA!
Please don't tell me "Erfa3aa alback" - Man.. i felt so dumb confessing about something and then just hearing him say "Erfa3aa alback". I mean, it would have made more sense if he had just said to me "OK. look, I don't know what to tell you, but I've heard worse".
What can I respond to with "Erfa3a alback"?
What kinda spiritual advice is "Erfa3a alback"???
Perhaps it was me, perhaps I wasn't spiritually challenged enough to understand the depths of "Erfa3aa alback" - maybe.
But the main thing is that you confess at a young age. It makes all the difference.
LOL.. whats wrong with giving myself advice?
Hey Tεκcoνι μέσα Πεχριcτoc,
To answer your question, I would also recommend you read the the chapter titled "Presumptuous Sins" in Fr. Athanasius Iskander's book. It will answer your question. You can find the book here (that chapter starts on page 39):
http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/books/spirituality.pdf
If you're too lazy to read it, there's also a sermon:
http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/media/media_sermons/spirituality/spirituality.html
In short, when I asked Fr. Athanasius if one should be tracking their spiritual progress, he replied:
One does not look for "results" in his/her spiritual life. God hides from us any progress we make in order to protect us from pride and self righteousness. Your father in confession will know about any progress (or lack thereof) but an experienced father in confession will never reveal this to his son/daughter. The devil can use "lack of progress" to convince you that your father in confession is no good and you should change him. In the same way, he can use your "progress" to convince you that you don't need your father in confession anymore and that he is stunting your progress by not knowing how advanced you have become in your spiritual life.
Pray for me,
Mansour89
Perhaps that's why my old abouna was telling me to "Erfa3a alback" because he didnt want me to get big headed?
Thanks for the links, i'll read them too!!!
I would wholeheartedly recommend 'The Art of Prayer' and 'The Philokalia', but also very much 'Unseen Warfare', another deeply practical and Orthodox book which I have found is both for the beginner and the more advanced and does not just say 'do this!', but explains why, and what the obstacles might be that Satan casts in our way.
For many years I have had to seek God's wisdom for my own spiritual progress, though I have a true spiritual father now. And I would say that for many of us this is the case at somne points in our lives. I found that if I just stuck to the basics of our spiritual tradition - Agpeya, Fasting, Liturgy, Reading - and committed to doing a little regularly rather than seeking to emulate the great saints then by God's grace I was able to establish some sort of routine that was helpful. Many of these books were written as spiritual advice for people and so they are of value to us as well as long as we remain humble and do not seek to do too much or give way to laziness and do too little.
In Christ
Peter
Erfa3a alback literally means "raise your heart". But, if you translate it meaning wise - i.e. how my FoC meant it - it would be something in the region of "oh.. cool!"
I'd be confessing some stuff and telling him some serious problems most 11 year olds face, and he'd come out with "yeah..cool."
And then he was always late for our sessions. I mean, I noticed several times that he avoided me when I was waiting for him. I'd wait AGES to confess, and I'd go to Church so early on saturday to confess and make sure I could have the communion on sunday, and all I'd get was "erfa3aa alback".
So, thank God for books! Now, I'm not bothered if my FoC gives me advice or not - i just read these books.
Mansour89 and peterfarrington: Thank you for the word of advice and recommended books. God Bless You!
Remember me in your prayers.
Peace,
Tεκcoνι μέσα Πεχριcτoc
I really wish I was greek orthodox. They honestly have wonderful FoC's. Orthodox11 father of confession is a saint. He's so wise, and very humble.
The grass isn't always greener. There are many saintly Coptic priests and there are Greek priests who are lacking in various ways.
I have found it helpful to pray for my own priest that God would give him more and more grace to grow in his ministry. And it is always good to submit ourselves to one whose gifts are humble. Although in terms of spiritual guidance I agree that it can be tough. But there must be a middle way between having a saintly father whose every word we obey, and one who struggles to give counsel and whose words we ignore?
Sometimes we need to humble ourselves to receive advice from someone who does not seem so capable in human terms so that grace may be given both to us and to them. (But that is not an absolute, there are some perhaps whose advice should not be taken).
Peter
but it didn't always used to be like this. in fact i went for years without good spiritual advice and everytime i asked a friend, they seemed to be always worse off and i was giving them advice! like, hey my husband doesn't want to pray with me today, and i'd get, yeah, i think maybe we're getting divorced soon, so of course i had to forget my own problems!
we moved house i lot and visited a different church with each house move, and everyone waited 6-9 months before starting to get to know us, by which time we were planning to move again (with work) so it was really hard and very lonely.
maybe some of you have the same experience so i will tell u how i coped in the hard times.
each time i was getting desparate, i'd ask God for help and then somehow the sermon the next sunday seemed to be written especially for me and my Bible readings were so helpful.
like one day i felt a bit lonely and then after church (not a v 'spiritual' church, like everyone seemed to have loads of problems) a complete stranger came up to me with a bunch of flowers that were left over from the service and said 'would u like these?' well only God knew how much i wished i had a bunch of flowers that sunday, it was amazing.
another time i was get really stressed out and loads of stuff from my past was buzzing around in my head and we had just moved house and i knew no-one and didn't find anyone to talk to, so, like before, i prayed to God and then got on with the job of telling people about him and caring for them as best i could in my stressed out state. a colleague in work started saying how she had seen something on television about Christianity and i invited her to church. i met some people there i didn't meet before and soon after that i was in church listening to people praising God and i just started crying for no reason. i was really embarrased because i was proud and didn't want anyone to know how much i was struggling. i didn't really know anyone and was afraid to talk to them. then after the service a really kind and Godly woman prayed with me and talked to me. because of her, i found the strength to forgive someone in my past who had hurt me a lot.
so God really knows your needs. he knows you really need advice. maybe you didn't find anyone 'right' to talk to, but my advice is to look for someone really spiritual in your church, eg the lady cleaning the floor after the service or the person who comes early and prays quietly and get to know them a bit, maybe help to clean the floor or start a conversation about how the sermon is relevant to your experience (if it went over your head, u can ask them what they learnt!). look for someone humble who doesn't gossip and then start to ask them stuff, maybe something minor at first until you've checked them out. that way, even if your FOC is quite cool, u can save the major problems for abouna and sort out the others in the community (like moses in exodus 18:13-27)
in the meantime, while u r waiting, help those around you, and u may be surprised to find out they are worse off than you, and it was your advice that was desperately needed in someone else's hard time!
may God guide us
I think it's important to have an FOC that inspires you, that encourages you. For me, just seeing my FOC's face and attending the youth meeting he gives weekly makes me want to be a better person.