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Should I go on with this relationship?
Hey,
as you all know, I have someone special in my life ..... and now it is time to plan for church engagment but there are some obsticles......
we agreed that once we get married we will move to USA where i live. and he agreed, and we have build our relationship based on that, and now when we are about to do a church engagment 1. his grandma died about 6 months ago and he doesn't want a big party, he wants something very very very small, which is ok but his parents seem like they don't want to spend much because even the invitation cards they don't want to do....!! 2. he wants to live in egypt because he says he is about to get the job he have always wanted ( a college professor) and remember he is a christian and the odds are he will be treated bad and he might not last! and i can't live in egypt!! my parents are leaving this descion up to me to decide! and i can't make a descion at all!! I don't know what god has planned for me and i don't know what to do! I love him and i want to grow old by him but i can't live in EGYPT! it is impossible.... !!! i still have like 8 more yrs of school and I have to finish them in US! and even after i get my PhD there is no way on earth i am going to work in egypt!!!
One thing that is making me realy think about this is that..... we were supposed to get our church engagement 2 yrs ago.... what has happened to delay it is that first time immigration paper work and if we went my brothers would have been held for egyption army.... 2nd time it has been delayed is that my uncle's death and it wasnt even 40 days if we would have gone to egypt, and now when it is time to go he changed plans..... do you think this is a sign from god saying i have postoned this 'till now so you would know that he wants to live in egypt and not in US?
SIMPLY, he can't change what we agreed on! because what we agreed helped us build our relationship!
I need an advice, I need someone to tell me what to do!!! I am lost I can't think of anything.... I can't let this bother me any longer because of my school work!!
your help is greatly appriciate it!
bentBABAyasooa`
as you all know, I have someone special in my life ..... and now it is time to plan for church engagment but there are some obsticles......
we agreed that once we get married we will move to USA where i live. and he agreed, and we have build our relationship based on that, and now when we are about to do a church engagment 1. his grandma died about 6 months ago and he doesn't want a big party, he wants something very very very small, which is ok but his parents seem like they don't want to spend much because even the invitation cards they don't want to do....!! 2. he wants to live in egypt because he says he is about to get the job he have always wanted ( a college professor) and remember he is a christian and the odds are he will be treated bad and he might not last! and i can't live in egypt!! my parents are leaving this descion up to me to decide! and i can't make a descion at all!! I don't know what god has planned for me and i don't know what to do! I love him and i want to grow old by him but i can't live in EGYPT! it is impossible.... !!! i still have like 8 more yrs of school and I have to finish them in US! and even after i get my PhD there is no way on earth i am going to work in egypt!!!
One thing that is making me realy think about this is that..... we were supposed to get our church engagement 2 yrs ago.... what has happened to delay it is that first time immigration paper work and if we went my brothers would have been held for egyption army.... 2nd time it has been delayed is that my uncle's death and it wasnt even 40 days if we would have gone to egypt, and now when it is time to go he changed plans..... do you think this is a sign from god saying i have postoned this 'till now so you would know that he wants to live in egypt and not in US?
SIMPLY, he can't change what we agreed on! because what we agreed helped us build our relationship!
I need an advice, I need someone to tell me what to do!!! I am lost I can't think of anything.... I can't let this bother me any longer because of my school work!!
your help is greatly appriciate it!
bentBABAyasooa`
Comments
no one can tell you what to do... you are a woman who is looking to be engaged and married khalas, mafeesh 7ad adik ba'a lol... just know that you need to do your choices, eat your fruits and suffer your consequences!!! if you need to talk privately you can pm me... I have studied and practiced such things before, I have written about them... so if you want to talk about it pm me!
akhadna el baraka! neshkor Allah!!!
Its great that your parents are leaving the decision to you and are not pressuring you. It can be very hard to get to really know someone who lives so far away, in a completely different culture. Be careful and don't walk down the isle unless you are 100 % sure that he is the one. Nothing is worse than marrying the wrong person.
Good luck and hope that you will make the right decision
About the comment above about marrying someone that is "higher" than you so that he can respect you......I don't know what to say typical egyptian mentality, it sad that youth in America still think this way. Respect has nothing to do with age, knowledge or social status.
All problems you mentioned could be resolved by time and remember all immigrants went through a culture shock when he/she first moved to a new environment …. Job, where you live… etc shouldn’t not be your concerns now, these factors are variable and change with time after marriage so don’t base your decision on them. Let the unique dynamics between you and him dictate how things should progress.
My apology in advance because I am not trying to be sarcastic here but I decided to ask this quick question for your benefits and to make a point, … are you planning to continue in your engagement if the result of this pool is 80% yes?
Guys, I just do NOT want to make the wrong decisioin here....... and if did marry the wrong person i will never get out of it, this is what is scaring and terrifing me...!!
I have already made up my mind about this problem..... He wants to stay in egypt with his mom and dad, and I CAN NOT live in egypt once again! that is impossible...!!! And he changed the base of our aggreament .... he changed the base of what we built our relationship on! and if he changed the base of something as simple as building a relationship who knows what else is he going to change later on....!! and I feel like god is telling me through postponing this twice that he is not the one he wants me to be with!! so as easy as this kol wahead yeroo7 fe 7aloo! He has me as a 2nd option if the job he wanted is not what he thought it would be then he will know that i am right there for him to take him to USA! and i refuse to be a 2nd option! If he realy loves me and realy wants me he would do the impossible for me! And who knowns when we are married he might tell me "my parents we mosh my parents....."
If he wants me and realy loves me he will move to Iraq for me..!!
bentBABAyasooa`
Look - I advise you strongly to look at marriage in the following way:
--> You are chosing a person. This is the main thing!! If he's telling you now that he wants to live in Egypt and work there, at least he's being honest with you. Its not as if he's planning to move there behind your back. You also know 110% that he's not marrying you just to get citizenship in the USA. That's really good.
May I ask you something, and if you answer it, you will have the answer to all your questions:
Would there be someone who, if he proposed to you, you'd be happy to even live on the moon if that's where his job took him?
I get the impression that this isn't the guy. You are assuming also that the United States is better for you. I'm not saying that its not, I don't know the future.
I don't understand, if you love America that much, why are you chosing a guy from Egypt who wants to live in Egypt?? Why not marry a guy who is at least Coptic but has his life established in the USA?
If you answer honestly the above questions to yourself, I'm sure everything else would follow.
I just want to say that I disagree deeply with Superman's opinion. You both seem to think the same way - you think that America is the best place on earth?? How on earth is that attitude putting your trust in God?? What if tomorrow you got shot in school by a crazy kid??
America is a poor country now. You are 2 TRILLION dollars in debt. Egypt is richer than America right now. It is wealthier. The only problem is that it has a lower GDP than the USA.
Put your trust in God, not in nations, or people, or prestige.
Whatever you seem to have, he doesn't seem to need it. He's not interested in your passport, nor your wealth.
And so what if his plans change!? What if he gets a job in the USA and they send him to work in Egypt for 10 years??! What then!! Will you divorce him!???
God bless you with whatever decision- just make sure in all of this you put God first, and trust in Him, constantly praying to Him with your heart.
And, if your having this much trouble trying to figure out whether u should marry this guy or not, then maybe hes not the guy. think of all the agony you have been through questioning urself. dont you think that if he was the guy that the Lord wanted you with, you would not have all these immense doubts in your head?
god bless
I kinda agree with QT
And, if your having this much trouble trying to figure out whether u should marry this guy or not, then maybe hes not the guy. think of all the agony you have been through questioning urself. dont you think that if he was the guy that the Lord wanted you with, you would not have all these immense doubts in your head?
god bless
The strangest thing is that many Coptic girls who are born in Egypt and have left Egypt in their teens or early childhood, have this image or education of marriage that I find absolutely scary: They are not at all taught that they are marrying a person.
They are taught that they should be marrying:
a Degree - and which degree (from which school)
a Sunday School teacher - not a Sunday School Servant.
a Christian - but not necessarily a God fearing or loving one.
a man that can get them a shabka - not a man that can provide them with any sense of security.
if he's abouna's son, that's good - if he's the son of someone we don't know, that's bad.
And the worst part is, abouna isn't going to advise them that how they are viewing potential husbands is the worst way possible. I don't think there's anything wrong with this guy Mira is interested in. But rather, I think the way he is being looked at has to be questioned.
When will Coptic girls understand that they are marrying a person. Not a Curriculum Vitae? If there's an item missing on his CV, God have mercy on us all. What if he didnt finish his degree, yet he's a genius? Do Coptic women bother to judge him according to his life or are they just interested in his passport, bank account and CV?
Imagine if you existed during the time of Jacob, the Patriarch, and you met all of a sudden, Joseph, the son of Jacob. Imagine if you saw this fellow walking out of a prison? or being thrown into a prison? I think Coptic women would have just crossed him out as a potential husband, when NO ONE on earth (human at least) comes close to how righteous he was.
Can you imagine if Joseph ended up getting to know a Coptic girl? She'd probably tell him :" You know, you are poor, you have NOTHING to offer me, you don't know where you are going, you're in and out of jail.. i'm not entirely sure about you".
Poor Joseph! poor righteous man!! Thank God he wasn't Coptic Orthodox!! After running away from Pharoah's wife and saving himself for his wife, he'd be depressed knowing that his choice would have been someone who would have judged him like this!!!!
I can really imagine the conversation with a Coptic Orthodox girl, and Joseph:
Coptic Girl "Where is your family"
Joe "Actually, I don't know where they are"
Coptic Girl "...oh dear! That's not good!" The Coptic girl thinks to herself "well , if he's away from his family, maybe he is sa-yeah (Loose). So she asks "Are you a virgin?!"
Joe "Yes"
Coptic Girl "Did you finish off your education?"
Joe "No.. i couldnt.. i had some family problems"
Coptic girl (thinks to herself : what a loser!) "So how did you end up in prison?"
Joe : "well, actually, remember that part about me being a virgin? I ran away from Pharoah's wife who wanted to seduce me"
Coptic girl "and she threw you in Prison!! YOU MUST HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG!!! Well, tell me, what do you do for a living? What are you skills?"
Joe: "That's a good question: I am a hard worker, but I'm really good at reading people's dreams, and making good judgements about them!"
Coptic chica: "Oh.. that's nice..." (and she thinks to herself "well, he's not a doctor, lawyer or pharmacist.. he sounds like a loser".)
"joe, I'm sorry, i wish you all the best with your career as a cleaner and as a dream reader, but I don't think its going to work out between us. Esma was nasseeeb".
And that's it. She loses out on the most righteous person we were ever blessed to have as an example of saintliness and righteousness. I couldnt care less if she loses out, but I care for Joseph how he must feel after suffering all this time, and then coming across a Coptic Orthodox girl from America. Poor fellow. Which was worse? Getting to know her, or being thrown in jail?
The problem with the above story is that there seems to be no trust in God when chosing a husband. Its just pure "their intelligence".
I knew MANY Coptic girls whose family and herself were just interested in the size of the shabka - and if he couldnt afford it, then he wasn't serious enough. WOW! How stupid!!!
OK - so bentbabayaso3a hasn't perhaps reached this level, but what really REALLY upsets me, is where is the spirituality in this?
Where are her questions asking IS HE RIGHTEOUS? IS HE someone who leads me to holiness?? What the heck is marriage then!? All the questions, or concerns seem to be about is "He is changing his mind and wants to live in Egypt!".
Which is fine, you should know where a man wants to live... that's very true. But, where is the spiritual element in this conversation?? Its so undiscussed that it shows the concerns to be completely based on the same hype young coptic girls are exposed by their peers and family on chosing a husband.
I know many coptic guys that studied anything - ANY subject, they couldnt care less, only because they knew that unless they had a degree, they'd never get married. lol
Such stupidity seems to breed stupidity. The root cause was that we are not using the Church as a Church. We were using it as a Middle Eastern dating agency. I would have loved to say as a "middle eastern Christian Dating agency" - but I can't. I cannot see any Christian aspect in any of this.
Are parents to blame?
A family want their daughter to marry the BEST person in the world. The problem with this is the word "best" because for Egyptians, "best" just means "prestige". For 2nd Generation immigrants, "best" takes more of a general meaning to mean "the right one", but a true Coptic perspective, a true Christian perspective on the word "best" in this context would be someone who can lead you to holiness.
Why on earth aren't they taught this??
How can a girl who is growing up in a Christian environment (like the Coptic Orthodox Church in a diaspora) who is surrounded by constant religiousness, end up so far from the main criteria for chosing a husband? Is it because that the Coptic Church in the diaspora is just an excuse to practice arabic? Is it just an excuse to live in the West, yet feel that you are still close to Egypt?
bentBABAyasooa`,
We usually use God as a consultant after something happens. How much trouble have we saved ourselves if we humbly ask God in the beginning of anything. Did u ask God if this man is the right one for u before u tried to build ur relationship?
Do u have a confession father to ask a spiritual advice from? then ask. And as QT said forget about US for a while and focus on ur relationship( u and him). U said if he love u he should not mind to go to Iraq. If u love him also staying in eygpt won't be scary like u pointed. There is always 2 sides of a story. We heard u and we wish we could hear what he has to say too. U seem really angry and u wrote with ! marks, like u r raising ur voice.
I wish I could say something on this but how can a blind lead a blind?
Just hold a fast of atleast 3 days or 7 days. Read the Holy Bible, Psalms, pour ur heart to God. Be strong spritually if there is any snare the devil is setting. Ask spiritually strong ppl to pray for u. Slowly u will come the Truth and the Truth will set u free, of ur trouble as the Lord said.
Pls all of us let us not push God away when we r starting something. It could be as small as buying a pc. Anything done with God is always the best.
May God give you the wisdom, patience, power and everything it requires to go through and come out of this set back a winner in the name of Jesus. May the prayers of His holiest mother, st. Mary and His holy angles, saints help u according to the mercy of God.
In all honesty, you cannot say or use as an excuse the fact that he wants to live in Egypt as him changing his mind. And if he changes his mind in this, then it could be a sign that he will change his mind in anything else (that's a ridiculous assumption!)
Not at all.
First of all, as I said, the basis for marriage should not really be a country. But if it is, you need to decide amongst yourselves who will do what in the family:
a) Who will give birth when you have kids? Have you decided that yet? Is it going to be you or him? If you decide that you will give birth, and be 9 months out of work, if not more, then perhaps its best that he makes sure he has a job somewhere?
b) Getting mad that he changed his mind about where to live is like getting mad from a bus driver who decides to take a safer route to a destination rather than the typical one. Does it matter the route, or the destination? Someone deciding on the "route" to take is not a sign that he is irresponsible. It is a sign rather that he has some wisdom. As I said, what if he gets a job in the USA and that company either goes bust? or they send him to Africa??? What then?? Will you divorce him??
A marriage is like a contract. Each person has duties towards the other and vows. There are No vows about which country you live in. There are only vows about how you treat one another.
There are no prayers in a marriage ceremony concerning his salary, his job, or his country of residence.
See, I signed a contract that I will work in Paris for a particular company. If they send me to Turkey on business, they know very well that this period in Turkey is against my contract, so I get paid extra to be there. In the marriage ceremony, the country of where you will live is NOT in the marriage vows that the Church give us. All they tell you is that you must RESPECT and OBEY HIM.
They don't tell you to love him!! They only tell u to Obey and respect him.
But he has to love you!!
You see that Mira?? When you get married in the Orthodox Church, they tell the wife "Obey and be submissive to your husband... do not contradict him". But the advice given to him, with respect to his responsibilities towards you is quite different. He is told to "love you and do what gladens your heart".
But let's look at a marriage we are all fond of examining:
LOT and his Wife:
It "Gladdened" Lot's wife to stay in Soddom.
Lot felt it Wiser to leave.
So, this story reminds me a bit about your situation. The man felt the danger of staying in Soddom, but he still enjoyed it. The wife REALLY loved staying there, and didnt want to leave.
Lot's wife could tell her husband "Lot, it gladens my heart that we should stay here! You are my husband, and do what gladens my heart".
Lot, however, being a man, is more logical: "I understand that living in sodom gladens your heart, but it is unsafe for us". I mean, Lot didnt leave Soddom because he was righteous!! The angel of the Lord got him out, and his only reason for following the angel was because the town was unsafe!!
So, I ask myself one small question when I read this story:
Why wasn't Lot's wife's heart gladdened for her having a husband?
Why wasn't her heart gladdened for being saved from a calamity?
Why wasn't her heart concerned about her unity with her husband?
In a situation like this, that sounds quite typical, it would have been beneficial for everyone if there were some rules in the relationship between Lot and his wife. Lot should be the driver, and his wife the passenger. She can say where she wants to go, but she must let him drive to get them there.
Although the husband has to "do what gladdens your heart" - you must follow him and obey him.
I think you are finding faults with this guy for no reason and accusing him of something he shouldnt be accused of. Its best to be truthful and say that you love America more than him, or love being with your parents whom u cannot leave, and you want to be there with them.
I think that would make sense to everyone if you had said that.
Please be careful: I am NOT comparing Soddom to America (although the thought did occur to me a few years ago!). I'm comparing a situation where a woman's heart was gladdened by living in a certain location (country). It didnt go against her husband's desires, but it went against his leadership in doing what was right for the family.
1. Educated but not too educated- unfortunatly they view a highly educated woman as a threat
2. Someone who APPEARS religious-that always looks good infront of people.
3. Has money but is NOT independant
4. Rich Parents- so they can help out financially
5. Quiet and doesn't talk much- cause ultimately its the man who should make decisions on all important matters.
6. Ofcourse a virgin-a girl who is not even if she was raped is treated like garbage. If a guy is not its not such big deal "men are like that".
7.Attractive and slim even if he is not.
8.One who can cook and clean and pretty much do what his mama did for him prior to marriage.
9.one who is much younger even upto 15 years is completely acceptable, but god forbid she be 1 year older than him- that would be a big problem.
I could go on and on but you get the picture. The expectations on women are a lot harsher than men. Women are sometimes treated like commodities not human beings with feelings, opinions, likes and dislikes. Its very rare now to find people (men and women) who overlook all these external things that have no bearing on whether or not a marriage will be successful and look for the TRUE CHARACTER of the person. It's really sad because some parents and Abunas do not highlight the importance of what truly matters when choosing a mate.
Going back to the original post I don't think that Bentbabayasoo really wanted to end this realtionship just because the guy wants to live in Egypt. I think there are probably several other reasons and this was the last straw.
We should not generalize all Coptic/Egyptian people this way. These are our brothers and sisters in Christ. To talk about people and label them in this way is sad to say the least.
Let us keep the focus on spirituality.
i am not really fit to answer this question. but heres somethinq, if u really want the right choice (whatever it is,) tehn definetely pray about it and try to sort it out with ur FOC. in the meantime, focus in on school as well and illl pray for u :)
bye
rabena mahaki
+mahraeel+
I truly like him .... and i know i won't find someone that understand me more than he does and i know he loves me! and i love him .... but love is not everything to make a relationship work!! especially if it is going to be marriage ..... He changed the base of our aggrement, and that just can not be.
It is way too late for me to go back and live in egypt once again! because i can barely speak arabic and i can barely read and write it..... how am i going to finish school there??!!
He just wants everything and he just can not! he can't have everything..... he as well is looking out for his future and what is best for him ( and having to work in egypt is not the best option there is). He changed the base of what we built our relationship on because a job he has not got yet!! dah kalam someone insane
I stood infront of the mirror and asked myself what is it that i want? And i said i want to live here in USA and finish my education and I want to marry him like what me and him and our parents agreed on in the first place!!! but he wants something else.............
and to be honest i thought i was going to be ok without him bas begad i am not.... i am tearing apart inside me .... he is someone i have loved with all of my heart, got to know him, fell in love with his personality, laughed together, planned our future life together, and dreamed together for 4 yrs now! he can not just throw a bomb in my lap and say deal with it!
No one understand me the way he does, i have never felt this kind of love before! He is somone i know for sure that when i go in his arms i will feel safe and secure!
bas he has me as a 2nd choice and i can not be 2nd choice!
I think i am just going to give it time, untill my tests for this week are over and talk with his and tell him It is impossible for me to live in egypt, and i will give him a choice either his "dream job" that he has not gotten yet and will not start it any time soon and stay with his mom and dad or me!
and if he picked his job and staying with his mom and dad..... then i wish him the best in his life and hope he will find a suitable girl to share his life with! And if he picked me then i will be sure that he can't live without me, and put him in my eyes 'till the day i die!
Posted by: QT_PA_2T If the US is as you described it,then Egypt is dying a slow death. The US donates close to $3 billion in aid to Egypt.A beggar can not be richer than his master! Think about that.
Where in this situation is Bentbabayasoo3a asking if he's a Godly man? If he's going to lead her into holiness.
It seems only one focused on materialistic things. Yes. She HAS A RIGHT to know which country he intends to live in. But - it doesnt mean he's going to change his mind because he changes his plans. Like I said: A car can only have one driver: that is the man. Two people driving only causes an accident. The man should take the woman where she wants to go - so basically, God made us into Chauffers. But he has to decide the BEST and SAFEST way to get her there!! If a woman insists that a country of residence is essential for a relationship, she limits the man where he can drive, and what he can do; to the point that the location of the car seems more important than the passenger!!!!
Egyptian women tend to think that if he's not prepared to give up a location for me, or do this for me, then he obviously doesnt love me. That's not true. Its stupid to think that way. If the man is going to be the breadwinner, he should decide where you are going to live. If a girl is Catholic, and the man is Coptic, and she says "if he loves me, he would change to being Catholic!" - I've heard this being said before, and it is extremely foolish.
Like I said, Egyptian girls need to realise that when their parents want them to marry the BEST - the "BEST" doesnt mean "prestige", or "wealth" it should mean "holiness". And what I find remarkable is that the spiritual dimension of this young man has been ignored completely and overshadowed by trivial things like "he's changing his mind OVER the country he wants to work in" and "he's too poor to do an engagement party".
Grace - I see your point, and I agree with you to some extent. Its equal. But I said the same thing: I said that even there are Coptic young men that end up studying ANYTHING just to get a degree, because ONLY with a degree can they get married.. even if they hate the subject. It doesnt matter. This is a very important example.
The Church should encourage and give value to spiritual qualities in a person whether male or female . Virtues should be given precedence over diplomas. Kindness should be valued more than wealth!!
But alas, even priests in the CoC are more convinced that a poor righteous man stands no chance of marrying a girl who wants a shabka. I'm not suggesting that everyone should focus on spiritual strengths and neglect social ones. But it is the JOB of the Church to focus on the spiritual ones and make sure that they are so strong,as it is not wealth that supports a family, it is humility, servitude, kindness and forgiveness. None of these can be achieved by having an American passport and living in the USA, or by gaining degrees in applied physics. The divorce rate in the UK is at 60%!!!! The same with the USA. I was hoping for our own Church to be an example of Christianity-in-Action, not Egyptian-in-Action.
If a man is chosing a girl from a church and all he gets that he is only being judged by the non-spiritual dimensions of his personality - then what has he gained by chosing a girl from a Church if spiritual strengths are not respected????
Do you know the joy in singing the tasbeha with your wife??? Do you know much that bonds a couple? Girls are asking guys the wrong question in Church, and guys are becoming the product of these questions.
Posted by: bentBABAyasooa` I believe the same applies to you too.If you luv him,then u must be ready to go to hell with him ,if that is necessary.Love is not one way or conditional.
Posted by: QT_PA_2T If the US is as you described it,then Egypt is dying a slow death. The US donates close to $3 billion in aid to Egypt.A beggar can not be richer than his master! Think about that.
I agree with your comment about Bentbabayasoo3a. You are correct.
For America, unfortunately, it is in deep financial trouble. You are assuming that Egypt is dying a slower death?? Did you know that the ONLY country to avoid all effects of the credit crisis was Lebanon?? Can you imagine that?
I'm just trying to say that by trusting in our judgements, we fail. But we should be trusting in God - that He knows what's best for us. That's the only point I was making. It is true that Egypt DID receive $3 billion a year, but i think you should watch carefully what happens this year. Don't count on such loans unless stringent conditions are attached.
A beggar cannot be richer than his master???
Oh Really?? Watch this:
If i work for a man and he gives me 100,000 dollars a year, and I save that money. And he gambles his wealth. Who do you think will be richer ?? Its basic mathematics. Everyone is betting on America's high GDP to turn this crisis around. I hope it works. I'm not against anyone living in the States. Why not? But they should put their trust in God, not in powerful nations. America is severly in debt, and if this stimulus doesnt work out, I fear that it could be the last place you'd want to live in.
And I did talk to 2 abonas so far one did not realy help much, and the other told me to give it time!
Like you said, marriage is binding. It will stick with you for the rest of your life... your decision.. do you really want to live the rest of your life in regret?
...I didn't think so. So if worst comes to worst, just wait. It couldn't hurt right. All things comes out with time. Besides, are you really ready to get married while you're still in school, or are you a bit anxious for marriage (it's okay.. sometimes people are)..
I don't know if you were born in America or came from Egypt, but I thought I'd let you know that His Holiness and afew bishops I've heard from are against people from America/Australia/etc. marrying people from Egypt. One of the main reasons, as already mentioned, is the difference in mentality. I was born in and have lived all my life in America. I've been to Egypt on visits, but I noticed even between my cousins and I, that there are differences. Especially for women, I think the American woman would feel belittled and oppressed by the typical role assigned to women in Egypt.
Personally, as a first generation Copt-American, I can't imagine mysel marrying someone from Egypt.. besides, there are plenty of Copts here in America who are in my situation and can better relate to me... whose parents are Egyptian, but have grown up in America. There are plenty of great Copts right here in America.. why go far?
Back to your issue, I think you should not advance in this kind of serious relationship if there is any slight doubt you have. If you can't get yourself to break it off, at least put it at a standstill-- time will reveal everything.. and from what I've heard, you've got time.
So tell us, why can't you live in Egypt? You say that you love him, but what is stopping you from living there? I do believe that you were not only born in Egypt, but you left it in your late childhood? Am I right? So, if you were living there for say: 8 to 10 years of your life, why can't you live in Egypt again?
He seems like a good guy, but the only obstacle is "Egypt".
That's why we were talking about the Economy. America, Bentababayasoo3a, although in principle it is a developed country, it is very poor right now. It is heavily in debt, and its export level has dropped so much, its GDP is much lower.
All I'm saying is, there is nothing wrong with America, but one should not put their hopes in a country. You don't know what the future holds. Maybe America will be a poor nation one day, and immigrants will be better off in Egypt? I know many Christians in the UK - who were born in the UK (who don't even speak Arabic!) - have left Europe and are now living in Egypt. They don't want to come back.
So, as I mentioned, you can solve this problem very easily by answering the following points (bearing in mind, that your fiance has the right to change his mind about a country where he will live, and it doesnt mean he will change his mind about everything):
QUESTION 1) Would there be a person, if he proposed to you, you'd be even happy to live on the moon with?
--> If the answer is "No" - and you can ONLY live in the USA - then ask yourself the following:
QUESTION 1 - NO) Why did you chose this guy for? Why didnt you chose someone who loves America the same as you? What is it about America you love so much, and what is it about Egypt you cannot stand?
QUESTION 2) If everything about this guy is good, and the only problem is the country where he wants to live, then would you be happier to live in Egypt if one day America became a poor country?
QUESTION 3) If your husband marries you and goes to live with u in the USA, and he ends up getting a job where they send him to the poorest and most dangerous african countries on LONG TERM assignments, would you divorce him?
--> If the answer to Question 1 was "YES": Then obviously you are engaged to the wrong person.
--> If the answer to Question 1 was "NO": Then, with all due respect, it is about the economy. I do believe Egypt has a few Coptic Churches, and a few monasteries. Maybe they aren't as good as what you have in the USA, but I'm sure its better than what we have in France (for example!)
It is REALLY important that you ask yourself these questions and forget this poll!! People on this forum do not understand your feelings, nor how good this guy actually is!!! I'm sure he must have some virtues otherwise you wouldn't even be talking about him.
I don't want you to lose a good chance over something that can be solved easily.
Finally ask yourself:
QUESTION 4) If you married someone else who was happy to live in the USA, would you regret not marrying this guy whom you are engaged to now??
Bentababayasoo3a,
What age did you leave Egypt at? If you honestly don't see yourself as an Egyptian, why on earth are you getting involved with an Egyptian for?
Look at User00: he or she is very wise: they know themselves - they understand that they cannot marry someone from Egypt. They accept the fact that they would require someone who is a 1st Generation Copt like them.
everything is over between me and him!
I did wish him the best in his future and i hope he will find a nother girl to share his life with!
and yes val, he did mention USA economy and how bad it is ...!!
any-who
I would like for you guys to pray for me,
thanks,
Mira
God bless.
My apology in advance because I am not trying to be sarcastic here but I decided to ask this quick question for your benefits and to make a point, … are you planning to continue in your engagement if the result of this pool is 80% yes?
actually the pool is 80 is to he is not the right one for you! and aparently it is correct! :P because this is wht i went by! ;)
haha
and you are right everyone cares about what is the best for them so why shouldn't i?
What is important to me right now is finishing school with good grades! I have nothing distracting me anymore!! and with god's help I want to goal and aim for things to happen in my future!
Thank you all for your support, and advices and prayers,
bentBABAyasooa`
But anyway, out of curiosity, at what age Mira did you leave Egypt and immigrate to the USA? How old were you?
Also, out of curiosity, is there a guy whom you would travel to the Moon with if he did propose?
Thanks
I know this topic has been answered already...but I just wanted to say that I have much respect for every word said by QT_PA_2T for like the first time ever. I want to apologize for what I am going to say about bentBABAyasooa' but I think that this guy is much better off without you (I don't think you loved him..sorry). I know someone who thought the same way as her who came to the US even older than I am and it drives me crazy that people overlook everything in a person and only focus on their social status.
Thanks, I feel also that this guy is way better off without Bentbabayaso3aa. I'm so sorry to see Egyptian Coptic girls like this. Coptic men suffer a lot in Egypt, and then they only get compared to by the status of their passports?
Its a huge shame.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7627.msg100215#msg100215 date=1234435417]
Hi Bentababayasoo3a,
So tell us, why can't you live in Egypt? You say that you love him, but what is stopping you from living there? I do believe that you were not only born in Egypt, but you left it in your late childhood? Am I right? So, if you were living there for say: 8 to 10 years of your life, why can't you live in Egypt again?
i guess i answered this in my opinion. Plus, i think he is asking for a little too much.
anyways, i guess this is all over and God will make things work out for you!