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Avchinon

user00
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Okay, so obviously it's too late for this year, but just so I know, are we supposed to say Avchinon of the Third hour on Thursday eve with the long Pekethronos tune or the regular ke eperto tune?

I had always believed (and practiced) the former, saying it Wednesday like Pekethronos. But today I read a book put forth by St. Paul's brotherhood of Los Angelos that said that although the words are identical, on Wed. it should be said with the ke eperto tune and Thursday with the Pekethronos tune.

So... what is the truth (please also provide some references).

Thanks a bunch  ;)

Comments

  • jydeaconjydeacon
    In everything I've read, Avchnon is always said in the same shami tune as pekethronos. The tune is said 4 times. First time on tue in the 11th hour of the day which is pekethronos. Thur eve 3rd hour, 1st hour day of thur and of course 12th hour of Great Friday.
  • user00
    That's what I have always thoughT, can other people confirm this for me as well please?

    Also, for the liturgy on Covanent Thursday, do we say Psalm 150 and/or Pioik during Communion?


    Thanks
  • LondonCoptLondonCopt
    As far as I know, Avchenon is always chanted in the same "Shamy" tune, although I have heard it chanted in the regular Ke Eperto tune due to time constraints or no one knowing the hymn.

    [quote author=user00 link=topic=7848.msg101973#msg101973 date=1240173115]
    That's what I have always thoughT, can other people confirm this for me as well please?

    Also, for the liturgy on Covanent Thursday, do we say Psalm 150 and/or Pioik during Communion?


    Thanks


    I think that nothing is said during communion, but as soon as the congregation say "Blessed is He" the eleventh hour Paschal prayers are started. I know that some churches DO chant Psalm 150 and Pi Oik during communion and don't start the eleventh hour prayers until afterwards. I'm not entirely sure which is "correct" to be honest...bit of a grey area. Anyone feel free to correct me on this,

    Matthew
  • user00
    Perhaps the book made an error about Avchinon then?

    I would like to see the consensus is, but of course there can't be one if there aren't a lot of posts.

    All alhan-buffs, please post!

    Thanks jydeacon and London Copt for answering.
  • LondonCoptLondonCopt
    From Albair's book (http://www.copticheritage.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=PagEd&file=index&page_id=760)

    As for the rite of prayers during Communion, there are two views with respect to this rite. The first and most commonly accepted, is that the veil of the altar is closed, without chanting Psalm 150, and the Prayers of the Eleventh Hour of Covenant Thursday are prayed instead. The prophecies are read and the Attriby Psalm is chanted. The prayers of the Eleventh Hour are therefore completed during Holy Communion. Also, no prostrations should be made during the Litanies because the congregation has partaken of the Body and Blood of Christ.

    The second opinion is based o­n the fact that since the Lord Christ is present o­n the altar, the Church should not be in a sad state. Rather, the veil should not hide the Body, and Psalm 150 should be chanted, followed by the hymn Piwik . No other annual hymns however may be chanted during Communion. It is o­nly after Communion is concluded that the prayers of the Eleventh Hour of Covenant Thursday are prayed.

    Hope this helps,

    Matthew
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