Patristics

Hi,

I noticed in tasbeha.org that a lot of those theologically apt individuals amongst us are quoting from the Church fathers.

My question is this:

who are the CHurch fathers? What makes someone a "Church Father".

I know the Greek Orthodox seem to think we follow some fathers, who for them, are heretical.

So, who are the good ones and who are the "not so good ones" ??

Does anyone have a list?

Comments

  • Hey CertifiedOrthodox,

    I would recommend checking out page 2 of this article:
    http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/content/articles/fathers/1007.pdf

    Pray for me,
    Mansour89
  • Thank you very much! Its exactly what I was looking for.

    Oh my God!! Hahaha

    THat's quite amazing. I just read page 2, and it says "This is what I call the Safe Fathers List". It means, this is well known to be a contentious issue!!

    1. Saint Severus
    2. Saint Dioscorus
    3. Saint Athanasius the Apostolic
    4. Saint Peter the martyr among the priests
    5. Saint John Chrysostom
    6. Saint Cyril the Pillar of the Faith
    7. Saint Basil
    8. Saint Gregory the Theologian
    9. The Fathers of the three ecumenical councils acknowledged by our
    Church.


    Is there any one here GREEK ORTHODOX (Mixalhs) that could just tell us if this list is OK for them?

    Thanks
  • There is no official listing.  The article represents guidelines.

    St. Gregory of Nyssa
    St. Clement of Alexandria

    are others.
  • Severus and Dioscorus will not be any Byzantine list of fathers.

    They are branded as "heretics" by those churches and rites.
  • In modern times, you won't find anyone more amazing than:  His Holiness, Pope Shenouda III, Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the Great See of St. Mark, i.e., the Supreme Head of the Coptic Orthodox Church.
  • Can someone kindly tell me who the heretics are? Or which of the fathers are not heretics, but have caused disputes with other orthodox churches?

    THanks
  • CertifiedOrthodox,

    None of our holy and God-bearing Fathers are heretics.

    About your other question, I hope that I live to see our Coptic Orthodox Church filled with those who love the teachings of our fathers, and know them as well as those who are committed to preserving the heritage of our hymnology. Both are necessary for the wellbeing of our Church.

    I am aware of more and more Coptic Orthodox who are becoming theologically literate to a high degree, and there are some priests and bishops who are particularly concerned to see this happen. If we do not understand our faith - I do not mean that everyone needs to be a theologian - then we are more liable to be confused or deceived.

    Father Peter

  • It depends on your point of view.

    Nestorians (aka, the Assyrian Church of the East) will not call St. Cyril the Great a father.  They consider him an "archheretic".  Just the mention of
    his name makes them cringe.  In their rites, they will refer to him in very nasty ways, since he was instrumental in expunging Nestorius from the See of Constaninople.

    We (the Coptic Orthodox Church) will take a good number of things from Jerome, or Augustine, but not all things.

    Like I said, it depends.


    The arch-heretics from the Coptic Orthodox perspective are:  Arius and Nestorius.
  • None of our holy and God-bearing Fathers are heretics.

    That's probably the best and most straightforward answer I have ever heard!!

    Amen.
  • [quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=8795.msg110275#msg110275 date=1265751716]
    CertifiedOrthodox,

    None of our holy and God-bearing Fathers are heretics.

    About your other question, I hope that I live to see our Coptic Orthodox Church filled with those who love the teachings of our fathers, and know them as well as those who are committed to preserving the heritage of our hymnology. Both are necessary for the wellbeing of our Church.

    I am aware of more and more Coptic Orthodox who are becoming theologically literate to a high degree, and there are some priests and bishops who are particularly concerned to see this happen. If we do not understand our faith - I do not mean that everyone needs to be a theologian - then we are more liable to be confused or deceived.

    Father Peter




    OK. which Coptic Orthodox Father do we have that the Greek Orthodox do not approve of?

    Of course, for us, none of them are heretics. SUre! THat's obvious. But, for the Greeks, or the other orthodox churches, do they have any qualms about our patristics?
  • Everything and everyone after 451 AD.

    Father Peter
  • [quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=8795.msg110282#msg110282 date=1265752280]
    Everything and everyone after 451 AD.

    Father Peter


    451 was what? Chalcedon?

    lol... Wasn't John Chrysostom after Chalcedon? or was he before?
  • St John Chrysostom was before.

    451 AD was Chalcedon. Although this was not the end of the controversy, and our Orthodox Church did not separate itself from the Byzantine Church until almost 100 years later, the Byzantines do tend to consider all of our holy Fathers after this date to be heretics.

    Father Peter
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