Genesis 3

Marmoura99

1. By saying 'Us' in v. 22, is God making reference to the Holy Spirit?

"Then the Lord said, 'Behold the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil [...]."

2. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, so why did He create the Tree of Life, which would make them immortal?

"[...] And now, lest he put out his hand and take also fromt he tree of life, and eat, and live forever - " (second part of v. 22)

3. God created man and woman physiologically different, even before the original sin, and He knew that Adam and Eve would sin, so why is childbirth part of the punishment?

jydeacon

By saying US God is refering to the Trinity. Not just the Holy Spirit as there are 3 persons. He created the tree of life so that they would be immortal, He knew they would sin but that doesn't mean that they HAD to sin. If they had eaten of the tree while in sin they would have basically condemned themselves by eternally living with this sin. Childbirth is not a punishment, the pain of it is. If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned they still would have had children.

Marmoura99

Thanks jydeacon! I still don't understand the part about the Tree of Life though. They didn't have to sin, but God already knew that they were...

John_S2000

God gave Adam and Eve a genuine free will.

GBU

jydeacon

[quote author=Marmoura99 link=topic=8978.msg112172#msg112172 date=1269115066]
Thanks jydeacon! I still don't understand the part about the Tree of Life though. They didn't have to sin, but God already knew that they were...


Gods foreknowledge of events does not mean He will interfere with the outcome. I'm sure it is better for us to exist even in a state where we must suffer and be able to have an opportunity to taste God then for us to have not been created at all. He gave Adam and Eve every tool they needed to live with God forever and in purity. The tree of Life would have been one of these "tools".

mabsoota

as for qu 2,
the tree of life is still there in revelation 22:2, we get to 'eat' from it in the 'new heaven'. it was not made without purpose, it is just waiting for us to be pure in order to eat from it when we are living forever with God in heaven.

qu 3, if you look carefully you will see adam and eve were both punished. eve has a uterus and is punished in that area and adam is punished because he will struggle and sweat to get food from the earth. so what is it that adam has that eve doesn't?
big muscles! so even though he has muscles he has to endure pain in them in order to feed his family. (obviously eve can dig too, but it looks like she spent a lot of time pregnant and populating the earth, so adam had to provide for her).
that bit about qu 3 is entirely my own thoughts, i never heard anyone preaching on that, so would be interested in the comments of others. so don't teach it in your sunday school class until you check it out!  ;)

Marmoura99

I don't know why but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. Why did God create us to begin with? The answer I keep getting is that He did it because He loves us, but if He loves us, why did He put us in a world of pain and suffering?

jydeacon

We are in a world of pain and suffering because of our own fault. Not because this is what He wants. God wants peace and happiness and joy for us, but we must endure suffering. Like I said, Gods foreknowledge will not interfere with the free will He gave us. Adam and Eve did not have to sin and cause all of this, but they did. God knew this but that doesn't mean He doesn't love us because He lets us suffer. Christ Himself suffered to PROVE AND SHOW this love. If Christ Himself suffered, are we above the Master? No, of course not. Does this make sense? Sorry if I'm not very coherent at the moment.

Marmoura99

lol you are very coherent... don't worry.

yes, we are suffering because of our sin, but why did God have to create us to begin with, knowing that we will sin? He gave us free will after He created us, but He didn't need to create us to begin with, so why? Do you kind of get what I'm trying to ask?

Gracia

well, why does a mother have children? knowing the children may mess up, sin, dissapoint her, disobey her, and die someday? she knows how many things may go wrong, but she has children because she can, and wants to bring life into the world, and wants to have children to love and raise.

i see God's reasons for creating us as similar. He did not have to make us, especially knowing already all the ways we would sin and disappoint Him and go astray. but He loves us, and it was (in my view) His love, creativity, and compassion which brought us into the world, first through Adam and individually through our mothers. life is a wonderful gift.... and God has not only given us life in our lungs, but given us the chance to have spiritual life and reconciliation with Him, through His Son. again not because He had to, but because He wanted to.

Marmoura99

I'm sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, God loves us, but that isn't a reason for creating us. I'm not quite sure how to explain what I mean, but He existed before us and will exist eternally and has never (nor will he ever) have need for anything. Love is a desire to an extent... a need. God doesn't "need our love". I put this in quotes because, as our Father, He wants us to love Him but it's still not a need. Do you get what I mean?

Parents have children for several reasons: 1) Love for each other 2) Need to fulfill a desire to parent. God has given us that innate feeling as an incentive to have children (I read this in a published scientific paper). So humans have children out of need, but why did God create us? Why did He create the world? the universe?

peterfarrington

God created the world so that he might love us.

There is no need in God, as you clearly explain. But we cannot take our own experience as a measure of God. If our own love is tainted by selfishness this does not mean that God's love ever is.

It is also the case that if the thought of creating mankind was in the mind of God then it was always in the mind of God, since God is outside and beyond time in His eternal present. There is a real sense in which He is always Creator since time is only something which we experience within creation as creatures of God.

The Divine Love is not a need. Love is the generous giving of oneself to another. God gives Himself to creation by calling creation into being.

The whole universe is made in love and for love.

Father Peter

Marmoura99

Father Peter,

I don't mean to be argumentative, but how does the creation show God's love for us?

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me.

jydeacon

Think about it. Imagine you were non-existent(its hard but go with me). The feeling of love from your parents, would you trade that in for anything in the world? If you were never born you would not get to feel that kind of love. I hear this all the time that we can never fully understand how our parents/God loves us until we have children ourselves. Don't you think that by creating us, God shows us love because we then get the chance to experience it. If God doesn't love he wouldn't create. What is the point of having a child? Just to have a child for fun? Or to show your love to that child, to be able to give that child all you have, and see them succeed etc etc. Like i said, it will probably be difficult for us to understand until one has a child.

Marmoura99

I read this post a few times, to be honest. You're right, but I think there are some things that we (or I specifically) just need to accept without fully understanding. After thinking about it, I realized that it's enough to know that God loves us because we will never really understand His wisdom and reasoning.

Thank you for your help!