Today at after abouna finished the final blessing, He was announcing the church schedules. He informed us that some coptic men in Egypt had divorced their wives for a reason other than adulterly. Of course, the church did not give them permission to divorce but the government did. So basically, if they marry again technically they have two wives. Anyways, they did not like this so they took this case to the highest court in Egypt, and the judged ruled that the church give them permission to divorce. His Holiness Pope Shenouda III said that he will not give permission because this is unlawful in my religion. I have my laws and you have your laws.
If that was all true we all need to be praying because H.H. Pope Shenouda III is going to be in some trouble.
May God have mercy and deal with this with His infinite wisdom.
Comments
I find it hard to believe that the Government want to make the Church change its policy on divorce. What right does the government have to do that?? The men can divorce their wives, but the Church will not accept it, nor will it marry them to another wife. They can live in adultary by all means.
But this is quite good for the Church: it really reveals reveals a lot about islam. The CoC only allows for divorce in cases of adultery. I guess in Islam, its whenever you feel like it.
1. The Egyptian Government attempting, again, to run the Coptic Orthodox Church and interfere in Its Sacramental Life and Ecclesiastical Hierarchy and integrity.
2. To test the will of Pope Shenouda relative to his age.
3. To build-up a situation which may be used to hold His Holiness in contempt of the Supreme Court of Egypt; thereby legitimizing his removal or exile as was done in 1981.
4. To use this as a silencer relative to His Holiness calling for justice on behalf of his people.
5. To elevate the Protestant movement and trends in Egypt to help break the majority and will of the Orthodox Church.
6. To foment strife between the faithful, and those who have chosen immoral and unjust lives; to try to justify their behavior with the backing of the Egyptian Government.
It is a chess game with massive consequences.
He was married to an actress( one of the only modern christian actresses) her name is Hala Sedki. The chirch basically gave her permission to remarry so he is asking the church to give him that same right. In order for him to get married in another church (different denomination) they require a statement from the coptic church confirming his right to remarry. However, it was obvious that he has cheated on his wife even though no one is willing to say it (because of privacy issues and what not). The church only allows ppl to remarry in the case of adultery, change of religion etc.
It says here that Hala Sedki converted to Syrian Orthodoxy. But this is our Sister Church. I thought that there is no conversion - or is there??
Anyway, this is anba Paula's issue. I think he will have to deal with it.
As you rightly say, this is not our issue, and we probably do not know all the ins and outs in any case. It shows how much wisdom is required of our bishops.
Father Peter
Not conversion, but it would be possible to formally join a different community.
As you rightly say, this is not our issue, and we probably do not know all the ins and outs in any case. It shows how much wisdom is required of our bishops.
Father Peter
Unfortunately, I do not know all the facts; and even after asking people in Egypt, they are a bit confused over the facts even. Its unclear if Hala Sedky went to the RC or the Syrian Orthodox.
I'm sure the CoC can handle this. His Holiness was talking about it on CTV and saying that the Church will not change its values to suit the government, or anyone else.
However, as iLoveSaintMark has pointed out, we are not up against a government, we are up against a force who has always tried to subdue the Church (for lack of a better word!).
I cannot believe the audacity of the government expecting the Coptic Church to allow adultery. I thought they were limited by some sort of moral code of conduct, but I guess I was wrong.
according to wikipedia (in arabic) says that "بعد تغير مذهبها من الأرثوذكسية إلى السريانية،" which literally says "after changing her way from Orthodoxy to Syriac-ism" which doesn't really make since at all......so i don't think we need to consider this case.
this is funny....because i also was watching a show with Hala Sedki in it and then i searched about her.
according to wikipedia (in arabic) says that "بعد تغير مذهبها من الأرثوذكسية إلى السريانية،" which literally says "after changing her way from Orthodoxy to Syriac-ism" which doesn't really make since at all......so i don't think we need to consider this case.
Im not judging Hala, or her ex husband, but seriously, what on earth does she care about marriage? Marriage is a sacrament. Its a Holy Sacrament. She doesnt seem to be someone, nor her ex who seem that religious to follow sacraments.
I think the Church should ex-communicate anyone who does not respect sacraments to begin with! I know its a bold statement, and I know its my opinion, but this wouldnt hurt one bit.
Saint John Chrysostom talked extensively about being slothful and unworthy when receiving ANY of the Church sacraments. Getting divorced, married again, adultary, and playing the Church like a marriage license broker is complete lack of respect for the sacrament of marriage anyway AND the Church.
God really forgive these people!!!!
No authority has the right to force the Church to act against Almighty God's commandments as given to us in the Holy Bible.
this good report is in Arabic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dJrarW-szQ&feature=related
GBU
HH Pope Shenouda III and Anba Armia answers are very clear.
No authority has the right to force the Church to act against Almighty God's commandments as given to us in the Holy Bible.
this good report is in Arabic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dJrarW-szQ&feature=related
GBU
Thanks John,
Has this issue been resolved now? or is it still ongoing?
May God have mercy on them because anybody who attacks our church does not get away with it.
God preserve our Pope, and subdue his enemies and the enemies of the Church under his feet.
They are not true Coptics. They have an agenda and in essence they are agents for the Egyptian Government.
We cannot say that iloveSaintMark. They are Coptic Orthodox Christian, but to go and embarrass your Church this way -OVER LUST, over something like this, over your own faults, is terrible.
Whoever has lowered the CoC has been lowered. Whoever has raised the CoC has been raised.
From Arius to Anwar Al Sadat... no one who has made the CoC suffer in anyway will get off lightly.
The main issue is not this freak couple, but rather the chess game that the Government is playing against His Holiness. No decision comes from the Higher Courts in Egypt unless it is cleared with the Presidential Palace. There is no such thing in Egypt as 'justice'. It is a joke. The obvious point is the attack on His Holiness and to test his will on behalf of our people.
It is sad to see your own members doing the dirty works of others who are hell bent to destroy the church from its roots.Frankly, this time around, I am not mad at the courts for their verdict since they believe they are doing the right thing in the name of Allah.Moreover,the sharia courts are only exploiting a perfect opportunity that is given to them on a silver platter.Surely,the blame should be on the riffraffs who are causing pain and suffering to their 'own' church.
May God save His holy church from her own selfish children!
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Copts and marriage
You can't just marry anyone
A secular step in a conservative country
Jun 3rd 2010 | CAIRO | From The Economist print edition
And if it goes wrong you can’t try again
EGYPT’S laws governing marriage and divorce are a multi-storeyed affair. For the majority of Egyptians, who are Muslim, they are set by sharia law as interpreted by Imam Abu Hanifa, an eighth-century Iraqi scholar who founded one of Sunni Islam’s four jurisprudential schools. For Christians the rules depend on which church you belong to; Protestant evangelicals are more tolerant of divorce than are the Coptic Orthodox, for instance, and Syrian Orthodox regulations stipulate—among other things—that a man may not marry a woman who breastfed him. Jewish family law is divided between Hasidic and Rabbinical Jews, though both provide that a “foul odour” can be grounds for divorce.
The Muslim marriage ceremony is fully legally binding, since a maazoun, a Muslim marriage registrar, is a public servant, but it is generally then also registered as a civil marriage at the justice ministry. But Christians must always register their religious marriage with civil authorities for it to be legal. This has given churches a lot of power: though Christians can get a civil divorce, the church will not remarry them, so the state cannot recognise a new marriage.
This has affected Coptic Orthodox Christians in particular, as their pope, Shenouda III, has taken his flock on a more conservative path since he became the 116th successor to Saint Mark the Evangelist in 1971. A steady trickle of Orthodox Copts has joined the evangelicals, who are seen as less laden with heavy ritual, more generous with welfare and more flexible over marriage and divorce. In the Orthodox church divorce is rarely granted, and then only through a special petition to the pope.
When the church refused Hani Wasfi Naguib a second marriage after his divorce, he sued Pope Shenouda in Cairo’s Administrative Court, which adjudicates matters of legal procedure. Mr Naguib won his case last year, when the court told the church it must grant him his right to divorce and remarry. The church appealed and lost, with the Supreme Administrative Court ruling on May 29th that “the right to establish a family is a constitutional right, which is above all other considerations.”
Defiant Coptic bishops say “there is no power on earth that could make us violate the teachings of our Lord Christ.” The case will now go to the Supreme Constitutional Court, the highest in the land. In the meantime, the affair has stirred a debate over whether civil and religious law should be separate. Secularists have long argued that Egyptians should be able to marry outside their faiths. Islam, for instance, forbids a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim man. Egypt is still conservative in such matters, so things are unlikely to change soon. But the latest court ruling may have marked a notable first step.
Let everyone give thanks to Our Lord Jesus Christ for this just rectification of the situation and for answering the prayers of HH Pope Shenouda III on behalf of all the COC.
In continuing the defense of the Word of God as given to us in the Holy Bible all the COC with the Pope is eagerly waiting the official declaration of national laws dealing with Coptic marital matters (that also include the non Muslim population). These laws should prevent a recurrence of such situations.
Thought to tell everybody these good news, though it is not yet fully closed so please continue to pray for the COC and for HH Pope Shenouda III.
Happy Feast of the Apostles may they pray for us.
Glory be to God forever. Amen.
GBU