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'Roumy' and 'Shamy'

epchois_nai_nanepchois_nai_nan
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
[coptic]oujai e`eouon niben[/coptic]
Hi everyone

According to Wikipedia, the tunes which we call 'Shamy' are of Syrian origin and the tunes we call 'Roumy' are of Byzantine origin (which makes sense because [coptic]romy[/coptic] is Coptic for 'Rome') - I was just wondering which hymns are 'shamy' and 'roumy'?

I know that [coptic]au[inon[/coptic] and [coptic]pek`;ronoc[/coptic] are both 'Shamy', which kind of disappointed me because I always thought they were Ancient Egyptian burial tunes. But are there any other 'shamy' tunes? And which hymns are 'roumy'?

It would also be interesting to know where the rest of them came from - does anybody know of any resources about the musical origin of our hymns?

Thanks a lot and God Bless

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=9485.msg116898#msg116898 date=1279792139]
    [coptic]oujai e`eouon niben[/coptic]
    Hi everyone

    According to Wikipedia, the tunes which we call 'Shamy' are of Syrian origin and the tunes we call 'Roumy' are of Byzantine origin (which makes sense because [coptic]romy[/coptic] is Coptic for 'Rome') - I was just wondering which hymns are 'shamy' and 'roumy'?

    I have to say....not much.
    one more thing, when we say "Roumi" we do refer to the Byzantine rite (Greek one now). but when we say "Shamy" we don't refer to the cities of Sham (The first Jerusalem see) but rathe Mount Shama in west Luxor, the place of ancient kings and queens. The tune is only used in our church for Pek-ethornos and afchinoun. nothing else. 

    I know that [coptic]au[inon[/coptic] and [coptic]pek`;ronoc[/coptic] are both 'Shamy', which kind of disappointed me because I always thought they were Ancient Egyptian burial tunes. But are there any other 'shamy' tunes? And which hymns are 'roumy'?

    the hymns that can be most roumy explicitly are the 15 roumi parts that were taken from the greek church in the time of Pope Kerrelos IV. other than that, you have the 9 roumi parts of Saturday Theotokis (written by Fr. Sarkis).

    It would also be interesting to know where the rest of them came from - does anybody know of any resources about the musical origin of our hymns?

    there is general history about there behind the general hymns used in rites. and there are also many stories about specific hymns.
  • jydeaconjydeacon
    Wikipedia should not be a source you count as credible. I can go on there right now and edit the entire page you read and make it seem like we took all our tunes from other churches. Or make it seem like other churches take their tunes from us. Its very easy to create biases and incorrect info on that website
  • yousiegtennisyousiegtennis
    .
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Minagir,

    Yet, again, some interesting points and insights.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9485.msg116925#msg116925 date=1279851155]
    Minagir,

    Yet, again, some interesting points and insights.

    the info about the shami is in albair's book....i thought that would be because i learned that "shami" refers to the place the hymn originated from. like "singary" which, as i remember, originally from the city of "Singaar" (maybe somewhere in the delta...can't rmember exactly).

    Also that's why in our pascha book, shami tune was translated to be "the royal tune"
  • epchois_nai_nanepchois_nai_nan
    How interesting :) Yeah, I thought it best to ask because I know how Wikipedia can be unreliable. Do you know how we can get a hold of that book Mina? What's it called? I'd be very interested in getting a copy.

    Thanks,
    PFM
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=epchois_nai_nan link=topic=9485.msg116943#msg116943 date=1279879419]
    How interesting :) Yeah, I thought it best to ask because I know how Wikipedia can be unreliable. Do you know how we can get a hold of that book Mina? What's it called? I'd be very interested in getting a copy.

    Thanks,
    PFM

    Albairs books is just an extended (very extended) version of a Deacon's Service book in coptic and arabic. it doesn't really give you the history of the hymns but when something is worth mentioning, he does. http://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/khedmitel-shamasserviceofdeacons2ndedition.aspx
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Minagir,

    I've been meaning to ask you if you know where I can get a copy.  I went to the link and it was out of stock.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9485.msg116967#msg116967 date=1279914879]
    Minagir,

    I've been meaning to ask you if you know where I can get a copy.  I went to the link and it was out of stock.


    someone got me my book from egypt....fromt he publishing bookstore, shekolani.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    I was asking about the Albair book
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9485.msg116970#msg116970 date=1279916786]
    I was asking about the Albair book



    yeah....i was to
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