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Mentioning of the Church Hierarchs in the Litany

ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
I wish it were a common prayer in every church (parish).

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9561.msg117855#msg117855 date=1281490170]
    I wish it were a common prayer in every church (parish).

    Interesting.....i think it depends on the priest...but i'd like to know.
  • servant33servant33
    We don't say Ethiopia but we say the other two
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=servant33 link=topic=9561.msg117861#msg117861 date=1281495884]
    We don't say Ethiopia but we say the other two

    actually, you are rit...it's not in the book.
  • SilentOneSilentOne
    Ever since our church switched books (from the old traditional first translation) to the Southern Dioceses' liturgical book, we've mentioned the other patriarchs except the Ethiopian one, though sometimes Abouna will add that in since it isn't in the book. Some of our deacons don't have the new book so when they respond to the litany they sometimes mess up or forget the names and Abouna has to quietly say them. Kinda sad but eh we're getting there.

    Anyone know the reason as to why we do not mention the Armenian Catholicos? I know there are two of them but they are in communion with each other last time I checked. Also why do we not mention the Syriac patriarch?
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    DavidI,

    I do not have a good reason for why the Armenian Catholicoi (the plural of Catholicos) are not mentioned.

    In regard to the Syriac Church, that is the Church of Antioch, as lead by H.H. Mor Ighnatius Zakka Iwas I, as I mentioned above.
  • SilentOneSilentOne
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=9561.msg117879#msg117879 date=1281525933]
    DavidI,

    I do not have a good reason for why the Armenian Catholicoi (the plural of Catholicos) are not mentioned.

    In regard to the Syriac Church, that is the Church of Antioch, as lead by H.H. Mor Ighnatius Zakka Iwas I, as I mentioned above.


    Err sorry I meant the Indian Malankara Church headed by Baselios Mar Thoma Didymos I not the Church of Antioch.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Interesting, I am surprised by the voting so far.  Hopefully there is no overlap in voters/parishes.
  • yousiegtennisyousiegtennis
    .
  • copticuser20copticuser20
    my church does not mention any of them. i am not sure why not though.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    This isn't really an accurate survey. Its a good idea, and I agree, they ought to be mentioned, but its not accurate.

    If everyone who responded YES (i.e. their names are mentioned in the liturgy) go to the same Church, and if everyone who responded "NO" go to different Churches, then the results would be misleading if the YES's exceeded the NO's.

    You need to write a poll that asks each priest. I think the main offenders are in Egypt.

    Also, just a question, why is it no one adds the Anba Seraphim, of the BoC. I know he is under H.H Pope Shenouda, but the BOC is stilll a separate patriarchate than that of Alexandria.

    I think he should be added also afterwards.

    Finally, what about the Armenians and Indian Orthodox Churches? Where are their heads? Who are they?

    Armenian Orthodox Churches are huge. These are the principal Orthodox Churches of Turkey, Iran, Armenia (obviously) and to a lesser extent Macedonia and Greece. They have a huge presence in Europe also.

    This is strange we are not celebrating our unity with them nor acknowledging their patriarch that much in our liturgy.

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Zoxsasi,

    No doubt this poll is not accurate by any scientific manner.

    I set it up in order to foster a thought that may proliferate. 

    In regard to, the Armenians and Indians (Malankara), and Anba Seraphim of the (BoC), they were not (for whatever reason) part of the Synodal and Papal declaration for the above hierarchs to be mentioned in the Litanies.  As I mentioned before, I have no specific reason.  My feeling for Abouna Antonious of Eritrea, is in the same regard I had for when Pope Shenouda was exiled.

    I did not think that the British Orthodox Church was a Patriarchate.  Anba Seraphim is a Metropolitan within the Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Chuch.  Within the precincts of the British Orthodox Church or his presence anywhere, he would be mentioned in protocol sequence in the self-same Litany.

    I was not looking for an accurate survey or poll, no different than any of the other polls that have been set-up.  I was just curious what other thoughts were out there in Coptic cyberspace.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    The British Orthodox Church is not a Patriarchate. It is presently a diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate under Metropolitan Seraphim.

    It would be good to have the heads of all of the sister Churches commemorated in the Liturgy.

    This is slightly problematic because of various tensions and disagreements. But it would be a good thing to do. The dyptychs always used to be read, they were lists of the heads of churches in communion. To be left out of the dyptych was a sign that a bishop was not in communion and was very serious. I am not sure why and when they are not read.

    Father Peter
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    I personally feel the idea is of the utmost importance - not for the benefit of the Churches, nor Church leaders being mentioned and honoured during the liturgy; but for the benefit of the Coptic Christians who, whether they may live in the Diaspora, or in Egypt, can know that their faith is not only for them by virtue of their Egyptian nationality. The Orthodox faith is for everyone, and it is important to view that and to live that.

    A lot of times, we as Copts, tend to get the impression that we are the sole survivors of the true Apostolic faith. Which, in a way, no one can blame them, given that their patristical heritage contains practically all the major saints that every other Church wishes they were part of. But ultimately, our faith is shared by other Churches, and we need to celebrate this unity a bit more often.
  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    I am not quite sure what you mean about the Coptic heritage containing all the saints?

    St Severus
    St Gregory Nazianzus
    St Basil
    St Gregory Nyssa
    St John Chrysostom
    St Ignatius of Antioch
    St Polycarp
    St Irenaeus of Lyons
    St Justin Martyr
    St Philoxenus

    etc etc

    There is a very long list of non-Coptic very important saints, fathers and martyrs.

    Anything we can do to help Copts realise that they are only one part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, is, as you say, a very necessary task. This must include meeting with other Orthodox and receiving ministry from their fathers and bishops. Thank God we are starting to see the possibility of this happening.

    Father Peter
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Zoxsasi,

    I have no idea why the others (see above) are not.  It is something that has to come out of the Holy Synod.

    I guess you can bring it up with Bps. Angelos, Misael, and Metropolitan Seraphim to bring up for the Synodal Committee.

    I agree that there should be a reminder of the other Churches with which we are in Communion.
  • ZoxsasiZoxsasi
    Fr.,

    I know I asked you this many times before, what is the chance of the Eastern Orthodox Churches uniting with the Oriental. What exactly are they waiting for from us?

    OK.. we apologise for something we didnt do wrong. We are miaphysite - just like them. If we are happy to bury the hatchette, surely there's nothing stopping full communion with them? Is there??

    Thanks
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    Sorry to bud in, but, it is:  The Monks of Mt. Athos.

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